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Post by admiralb on Aug 18, 2009 13:28:17 GMT -5
The Musketeer acts as Marine ability is interesting...I've been trying to figure out ways of making Marines more useful myself...
one of them was: "Once at the beginning of each of your turns, roll a d6. On a result of a 5 or 6, all your crew with the Marine keyword may be given two actions that turn."
since, one shot is rarely very useful by itself especially for those marines on islands, this way they get a second shot...I had it priced fairly cheap because it was a limited use ability and required at least one Marine to be useful.
second: "Crew with the Marine keyword take up no cargo on this ship."
obviously a way of transporting more Marines around to drop off at islands...fairly cheap again because you need Marines for it to work well, but has potential of being useful.
thrird: "If this ship is assigned a crew with the Marine keyword, she gets +1 to her cannon rolls."
similar to those other abilities that use Captains to get bonuses...except its Marines this time...the first ship I gave it to was a Corsair ship that linked with Dragut, who became a Marine in the same set...it was interesting. the usefulness is obvious, extra bonus for a Marine and the Marine gets to shoot too...extra cannon and +1 to the other cannons in the process! Corsairs would definately benefit from that since their guns are pretty terrible on average...
I could see a Marine Corps Commander type crew that had any or any combination of these abilities...new version of Eaton! what about Moreau's commanding officer? as I said above, Dragut might even work...
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 18, 2009 14:23:31 GMT -5
About the Marine Corps Commander- I'd love to see ridiculous over the top Marine.
John Rambo, 11 points, American Abilities: Fanatically Loyal: America. Marine. This crew gets +1 to her gun rolls and starts on a wild island. As long as this crew is on a wild island, this crew ignores all hits on a 4-6. You may choose to have this crew move L per turn, during which this crew cannot be targeted. This crew may board enemy ships if it is within range and gets +4 to its boarding rolls.
So essentially he's seriously awesome. He's probably too good, but who cares? He's awesome. He can shoot, and then board the enemy ship. And he can swim. I'd so use this crew!
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Post by woelf on Aug 18, 2009 15:18:10 GMT -5
For the English-The problem with them is that's all they really have. I guess that you could go this route: HMS Scone, 15 points Masts: 5 Cargo: 7 Speed: L Cannons: 4S 5S 5S 5S 4S Abilities: Musketeers on this ship lose their abilities and gain the keyword Marine. I like the sound of that one. It definitely breaks out of the "big gunship" mold, yet still fits well as an English ship. It would be funny to see it running around with 4 "Marines" onboard only to run up against a canceller which shuts them all down at once. I think I skipped it when you first posted it because I didn't have time to go into detail about it, and then forgot to go back to it. Anyways... I'm not a fan of L-range cancellers, because it throws off game balance a lot more than what adding a few points to the cost of the ability can fix. Cancelling at L-range makes it impossible for an opponent to attack the ship without bringing a canceller of their own, using an ability that extends cannon ranges beyond L, or using multiple different ships at once. It also allows a ship with this ability to take out defensive abilities and still make an attack without coming into range of a canceller onboard the target. To make matters even worse, it's different enough from a standard canceller that you could use both at once - effectively making it immune to enemy cancellers. You do provide an alternative, but it's not a very good one. Losing two crew or two treasures will often be worse than losing an ability, assuming the player even has any to give up in the first place. I do like the concept of allowing the target to choose between between two bad options, but in this case the ability is way too powerful - and that's not even taking into account the rest of the ship's stats, which would be really good with almost any ability. I'm not sure of the best way to salvage it, but point cost alone isn't enough because 'as-is' this one could cost upwards of 30 points. A few potential options: 1) Reduce the alternative option. Instead of 2 crew or 2 treasures, make it 1 crew, 1 treasure, or 1 mast, so the affected player will always have at least one option available. In the event that the ship was down to one mast and had no crew or treasure available, the difference between losing an ability or becoming derelict isn't going to matter much, and if it's already derelict and has nothing else to give up there probably won't be much of anything left to bother cancelling either. 2) Reduce the rest of its stats significantly without reducing cost more than a couple points. Drop the +S ability entirely, bump the cannons up to rank 3 or 4 at the minimum, and cut the cargo space in half. I'd even make the cannons S-rank across the board to minimize the issue with shutting down defensive abilities from outside of canceller range. MG Vasquez could of course still be used, but if you want that range you'll have to pay extra for it. To help offset some of these changes, you could safely bump the base move up to S+S. 3) Make the ship smaller. On a loaded 5-master that ability is far too beastly, but on a 1- or 2-master it could make a pretty cool support ability. It'll still be pricey for its size, but not game-breaking like it would be on a big ship because it would be much easier to take out. What does Galleon do again? Since there are already two other versions of Treasure Ship that each refer only to themselves, you really don't need the note about a linked crew on this one because this would be the "generic" version of the keyword. Although, to avoid confusion it might be be better to come up with a different name for the keyword. I'm not seeing much of a benefit to this ability, because with such a huge cargo hold you're going to run into the point limit with crew long before they fill it up. I mean, when was the last time you were loading La Joya del Sol with crew and ran out of cargo spaces? I could see this ability being much more useful on a ship with a small cargo hold where free space is a lot harder to come by. Regardless of that, there is one serious issue that needs to be addressed with this ability: Padre Francisco. For the cost of just one gold per turn, he'd turn this ship into a crew factory, and I can't think of a good way to address that short of adding a restriction that specifically called out his ability or completely rewriting the ability.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 18, 2009 16:22:39 GMT -5
The "HMS Scone" is a hilarious ship to use, I once loaded it up with 6 'marines'- pricey as heck, I know, but dang, 11 cannons is pretty amazing, even if 5 of them are terrible!
The San Juan Nepomuceno- You're right about the option being a bit cruel, testing it out I found that. I like the idea of reducing the 'penalty', even though most of the time it just ends up being "once per turn, you can eliminate one of these of your opponent's choice: a crew, a mast, or a treasure." How about a crew, a treasure on that ship, or 2 masts?
Testing wasn't the greatest for it though, its point cost needed to be raised.
I agree with reducing its cannons to all rank 3 and 4, and removing the +S ability and bumping its speed to S+S. Don't agree with reducing cargo.
Personally, I'd love to keep the ability if it was on a ship like this:
San Juan Nepomuceno, 21 points Masts: 5 Cargo: 6 Speed: S+S Cannons: 4S 3L 3L 3L 4S Abilities: Once per turn, one game piece within L can't use its abilities this turn. The owner of the game piece may remove 1 gold piece or crew, or take 2 damage to the affected piece to ignore this ability. (The choice must be a legal one)
It's still pretty powerful, but not nearly as much. I also changed the wording so that it reads game piece, meaning that it can affect sea monsters.
For "Cacafuego"- Galleon reads, "This ship ignores the first hit of every shoot action on a roll of a 4-6. Ramming cannot eliminate this ship's masts. This ship cannot fire at one or two mast ships within S of this ship."
Not that great, I know, but it kind of made sense.
I agree that the keyword needs to be changed, or you could just write out the ability.
@ Problems with Padre Francisco-Ouch. After reading your post, just tested that out. Not fun. I think that either the ability should be scrapped, or we should make it that crew on the ship take up 2 cargo spaces. This would severely limit his crew factory potential. And making it that you can only do it once per turn? That would also limit him quite a bit.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 18, 2009 23:23:55 GMT -5
This is an interesting American ship I came up with.
USS Rwar, 18 points Masts: 5 Cargo: 4 Speed: L Cannons: 5S 5L 5L 5L 5S Abilities: Give this ship a move action, but don't move her. Instead, you may place an accuracy counter on a ship's deckplate that you own. (For each accuracy counter on a ship's deckplate, that ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls.)
This is the counters that I was talking about earlier. You can either decide to spend a couple turns making this ship really good, or you can use it to buff up your other ships. A play on the cheerleader ability, if you will. It's expensive, but as the turns go by your ships become hyper accurate. Its cost may need to be increased.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 19, 2009 0:25:50 GMT -5
about Padre Francisco and such...wouldn't the ability be treated as a "once per turn" anyway? similar to the ruling on Nemo's Plans and UTs that "could" be used multiple times in one turn...like Runes of Loki and such combined with Nemo's Plans you can only use it once per turn, but still once per turn is pretty powerful when it doesn't go away...
...you could change your ability to read "Once per turn, you may pay one gold to turn one crew on this ship face-down." you still end up paying for your crew, just in gold, and you never get a crew that's very expensive anyway with Padre Francisco...I'd be more worried about abusing the MI in SS that nets crew 3pts and under on a good die roll...I've tried its crazy...got Arii Aura, helmsman, captain for my Couer du Lion near the end of the game in a last ditch attempt at messing with people trying to get the last gold...it was really weird...
the USS Rwar (does that mean anything or is it a placeholder?)...anyway, as you have it priced now the ability is 9pts...since Santanna's ability is 6 and doesn't require an action, I can see that the ability is reasonable...I'd say no more than 12, but since the ship itself is so bad without helping itself, it seems ok...rarely see any use outside deathmatches and larger games (maybe in our campaign...although Hannah and Springfield haven't been seen yet in the campaign, so its unlikely unless its given as a free ship for a mission)...maybe limit the ability to placing counters on ships of the same nation (like Cargo Master)...that way the pricing is more justified and really gives America something unique.
...oh, and San Juan's cancel...make it able only to cancel ships and crew to keep it in line with the existing cancellors...I don't want my equipment getting cancelled from L...also, it would seem to imply that it can also cancel events (ala Cursed Jack and his cancelling all non-Parley abilities)...what might be interesting is just say something like "Once per turn, one ship or crew within L of this ship cannot use its ability this turn; the ship or crew that is being cancelled may use Parley against this ship to prevent that cancel." not sure it that's any better, at the very least its something to think about...hmm...an ability that gives Parley to enemy ships...didn't we do this already?
since we're on counters and stuff at the moment and L-range cancelling...what about giving the L-range cancel counters? like: "When revealed, roll a d6 and place a number of cancellation counters on this ship. Once per turn, you may remove one cancellation counter from this ship to prevent one ship or crew within L of this ship from using its ability this turn. If there are no cancellation counters on this ship, this ability cannot be used." oddly enough, combined with your ability to turn crew face-down, this ability might still be too powerful...hmm...maybe this: "When revealed, place a number of cancellation counters on this ship equal to or less than the amount of gold on your home island; then remove that amount of gold on your home island from the game. Once per turn, one ship or crew within L of this ship cannot use its ability this turn; then remove one cancellation counter from this ship." Basically, when you have some gold, you reveal this crew to get yourself some counters so you can cancel stuff...you're paying gold to cancel from further away...its an interesting new way of using gold...maybe one for other stuff too, like cannon rolls, boarding rolls, MI rolls, extra action rolls...hmm..."Once per turn, you may remove gold on your home island from the game to make any one die roll result equal to that amount of gold." so remove 5 for a guaranteed extra action, 6 for fleet actions, 3 for Navigators...you could even go a cheaper route...adding +1 for each gold removed...remove 1 gold for +1, 2 gold for +2, 3 for +3...etc...so if you roll a 1 on that extra action, dump 4 gold and make it a 5...maybe...its weird...I like the idea for MIs better...maybe something like "After this ship rolls for Mysterious Island affect, you may remove a number of random coins from this island to add that to your Island Effect result." so, if I roll a 2 for the MI, I can dump 3 coins from the island and make it a 5...there'll only be 1 left probably, but if played right, that one coin may be the only one you need...of course, that ability would not be cheap because you're altering the total number of coins in play withou really looking at them...but don't the Volcano MIs already do that? hmm...maybe Pirates could get something that messes with gold removal for sinister purposes...
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 19, 2009 1:09:32 GMT -5
about Padre Francisco and such...wouldn't the ability be treated as a "once per turn" anyway? similar to the ruling on Nemo's Plans and UTs that "could" be used multiple times in one turn...like Runes of Loki and such combined with Nemo's Plans you can only use it once per turn, but still once per turn is pretty powerful when it doesn't go away... ...you could change your ability to read "Once per turn, you may pay one gold to turn one crew on this ship face-down." you still end up paying for your crew, just in gold, and you never get a crew that's very expensive anyway with Padre Francisco...I'd be more worried about abusing the MI in SS that nets crew 3pts and under on a good die roll...I've tried its crazy...got Arii Aura, helmsman, captain for my Couer du Lion near the end of the game in a last ditch attempt at messing with people trying to get the last gold...it was really weird... Very true. Once per turn would definitely fix the issue, and for one crew. But there really aren't too many Spanish crew sans generics for 2 points or less anyway, so it's not THAT abusable, unlike maybe the Pirates. Name is just a placeholder, I often give weird/funny names to draft ships that I make. I like the idea about giving it to Americans only, definitely encourages mono nation. I made the ship with the intention of it being used in a deathmatch. In an American fleet, it's actually really useful. Sure it costs a bunch of points. For example turn 1 you give the Enterprise all rank 1 cannons, then the USS Constitution all rank 2 cannons, and around turn 6 or so most of your gunships will have rank 1 cannons, if not all of them, and then you can give the USS Rwar all rank 3 or 2 cannons. All in all, not too bad. Great minds think alike, I was actually thinking of an ability like this! How about something like, "This ship starts with two diplomacy counters. Once per turn, you may eliminate a diplomacy counter to cancel one ship/crew ability with S". Seriously, Admiralb we think a lot alike. I really like these abilities. Yes they are expensive, but for how powerful they are it makes sense. I had thought up a pirate crew that did this, to go along with your Pirates that have gold removal: "Eliminate a crew and 2 gold from your home island: Put an accuracy counter on this ship. When you use this ability the 2nd time in a turn, this ship eliminates one cargo when she hits." So you put it on the Deliverance, sack some crew, then you just destroy the ship you target. How about this for a Spanish crew: "This crew has 3 diplomacy counters. Once per turn, you may eliminate a diplomacy counter to cancel a ship/crew ability within S. You may eliminate one crew per turn to put a diplomacy counter on this ship. Eliminate 5 diplomacy counters on this ship: This ship can't be targeted until the end of turn." He is kind of like a Planeswalker from Magic unfortunately, but I think that the ability is really cool. You know, I really like this "counter" gimmick. Something tells me that I'm going to have a lot of fun creating new abilities and testing out crew and ships! Though I must say one thing: With counters being equal to gold, we're steering a bit towards Magic the Gathering, as I said above. Now I personally don't mind as Magic is a fun game with tons of different interactions, but I'm just making sure that the rest of you realize this if you haven't already, and I'm kind of trying to gauge what people think.
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Post by woelf on Aug 19, 2009 8:33:27 GMT -5
about Padre Francisco and such...wouldn't the ability be treated as a "once per turn" anyway? similar to the ruling on Nemo's Plans and UTs that "could" be used multiple times in one turn...like Runes of Loki and such combined with Nemo's Plans you can only use it once per turn, but still once per turn is pretty powerful when it doesn't go away... ...you could change your ability to read "Once per turn, you may pay one gold to turn one crew on this ship face-down." you still end up paying for your crew, just in gold, and you never get a crew that's very expensive anyway with Padre Francisco...I'd be more worried about abusing the MI in SS that nets crew 3pts and under on a good die roll...I've tried its crazy...got Arii Aura, helmsman, captain for my Couer du Lion near the end of the game in a last ditch attempt at messing with people trying to get the last gold...it was really weird... Very true. Once per turn would definitely fix the issue, and for one crew. But there really aren't too many Spanish crew sans generics for 2 points or less anyway, so it's not THAT abusable, unlike maybe the Pirates. I was already looking at it as if it was a "once per turn" ability, so limiting the crew-flipping ability wouldn't have much effect. Named crew aren't really the issue anyways, since there are plenty of powerful generics you could bring in: helmsmen, firepots, chainshots, navigators, etc. Even in terms of named crew, Spain has several good ones that are two points or less: Luis Zuan, Comandante Antonio de Silva, Gonzalo Mora, and Castro's Loyalists. Numerically Pirates may have a few more, but they either do the same as the Spanish crew or are less useful. A possibly better way of handling the abilty would be something like this: "Once per turn you may eliminate one treasure on this ship to turn all crew onboard facedown; they take up no cargo space until revealed."You'd still be able to pull in a few extra crew with Francisco, but unless you find a huge cache of 1-gold coins it's going to start getting expensive. This also would eliminate the need to track which coins had been reduced in value. Another limiting alternative, without the "once per turn" restriction: "You may eliminate a treasure on this ship to turn facedown all crew onboard with point values equal to or less than the printed value of the eliminated treasure; those crew take up no cargo space unless they leave this ship."This one would allow you to generate several crew in a turn, but it will get pretty expensive in a hurry because it'll take at least a 3-gold coin each time you wanted to flip Francisco. However, since this version is so much more expensive, I made the cargo bonus permanent (at least while they stay on the ship). This might be a good way to handle the L-range canceller issue. Have it start with two or three (at most) counters, and once they're gone it can't be used anymore. Counters aside, the "choice" canceller up above would work just fine with a range of S anyways. That would avoid most of the issues with outranging things, while still keeping the general feel of the ability. Mechanically the elimination of crew is an easy way to generate other effects, but it really doesn't fit the "feel" of an ability that would increase accuracy. Instead, what about something like this: "Each time this ship eliminates a mast on an enemy ship, it gains an accuracy counter; this ship gets +1 to its cannon rolls for every two accuracy counters it carries."This way, instead of just killing redshirts you have to do a little work to get the bonus, and it fits the theme of the ability much better - the more shots it makes, the more accurate it gets. (Unless stated otherwise, it would be assumed that the bonus from counters is permanent.)
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cke1st
Ordinary Seaman
Posts: 8
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Post by cke1st on Aug 19, 2009 9:26:24 GMT -5
I'd like to add a contrary opinion to this discussion. I see everyone getting excited about very powerful, very expensive ships and crew. The more outrageous the ability or combination of abilities, the more people seem to like it. It's just a matter of time until we see something like: HMS Fluxcapacitor (26 pts) Masts: 4 Cargo: 3 Speed: S+S Cannons: 2S 3L 3L 4S Link: James Bond Ability: At the end of each turn, roll two dice. If they both come up 6, you automatically win the game and you get to keep all the other players' ships. If they both come up 1, you have to put all your ships on the floor and stomp on them. Please remember that a lot of us still play 40-point games, where high-cost ships and crew almost never get used. For example, my gaming group usually has seven people playing at once, and we have two hours to play; huge fleets with three-digit point costs are totally out of the question. Just my opinion, but I think the Pirates community would be better served by good ships in the 10-to-15-point range, a few cheap ships with single-digit costs, and crew who give one worthwhile ability for 4 points or less. They'd be a lot more likely to see action than those uberships and demigod crew. And there are plenty of low-cost abilities that haven't been done yet. Here are a few crew I'd like to see: - All non-USA ships get -1 on their cannon rolls against this ship. (4 pts)
- Pirate ships get -1 on their cannon rolls against this ship. (2 pts)
- Cannons shooting from greater than S range get -1 on their cannon rolls against this ship. (3 pts)
- Two identical generic crew can have their abilities stack on this ship. (2 pts)
- This ship is not required to load any unique treasure unless you wish to do so. (1 pt)
Just my two doubloons' worth.
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Post by buckland on Aug 19, 2009 11:15:34 GMT -5
I see everyone getting excited about very powerful, very expensive ships and crew. The more outrageous the ability or combination of abilities, the more people seem to like it. It's just a matter of time until we see something like: I can't agree more. Remember that it is easy to get carried away. This set needs to be keep in line with what WK has already done. There are no shortage of good ideas here. But please keep the abilities, ships, crew etc.....sensible. Otherwise we just as well, build a set from these ideas. www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=521967I think that abilities should be keep cheap, useful and most important. You should always be able to counter-attack any ability. I would very much like to see an ability that allowes a ship to target another ship in the fog. Too many times I see Lord Mycron (a very powerful crew) on a cheap ship floating around in the fog. And you can't do a thing about it.
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Post by Swift Nic on Aug 19, 2009 11:54:53 GMT -5
Would it be too much to ask for a Fireman crew, or a water pump or asbestos sails ? Anything to counter the dreaded fire mast rules! I've had my fleet burned up with no way of countering it too many times. Am I missing something ? Is there a way of putting out fire masts before your whole ship burns up? Nic Furious
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 19, 2009 12:32:53 GMT -5
I'd like to add a contrary opinion to this discussion. I see everyone getting excited about very powerful, very expensive ships and crew. The more outrageous the ability or combination of abilities, the more people seem to like it. It's just a matter of time until we see something like: HMS Fluxcapacitor (26 pts) Masts: 4 Cargo: 3 Speed: S+S Cannons: 2S 3L 3L 4S Link: James Bond Ability: At the end of each turn, roll two dice. If they both come up 6, you automatically win the game and you get to keep all the other players' ships. If they both come up 1, you have to put all your ships on the floor and stomp on them. Personally, I fail to see what the problem is. Currently we're talking about 5 mast ships. 5 mast ships are the cream of the crop, and often have much better abilities than say, a 3 mast vessel. In any case, what you're suggesting will eventually happen is just silly. You're assuming that we're on a slippery slope, which in and of itself is a fallacy. Please remember that this thread is for BRAINSTORMING. We're thinking of things that will best serve the set. In my gaming group, inefficient crew and ships never get used. For example, the Dreadnought, or Aruj Barbarossa, or Marques Miguel Antonio. Some of these ships are catering towards deathmatch, which is fine as a lot of people play that way. But there are still going to be ships that cater to the actual rules. Keep in mind that, of course, your gaming group is just one gaming group.Some groups like really powerful but expensive stuff. I'm one of them. We're all still brainstorming. Of course there are going to be some cheap crew and some cheap ships, like there always are. I've only really suggested one or two ships that have had some crazy abilities to be honest, that and the John Rambo crew which I just thought was funny. Personally I value your opinion as I think that you have some great ideas, but it's hard to take you seriously when you go as far to suggest that we're going to do something stupid like that ship above, even though I know that it was satirical. @ Buckland- What has WK given us besides boring ship after boring ship? Personally, I want to break the mold of 20 crew with the super boarding ability. Don't you? Let's face it, South China Seas forward have some of the worst offenders of "boring abilities" or "abilities that you have seen on virtually every ship". For example, +1 to boarding. I'd say that we're keeping everything really sensible here. No bombardiers, or hoists, or scorpion ships to be seen. And actually, a ship that says, "This ship ignores terrain when given a shoot action" would fix your problem, would it not? All ships and abilities will have counters to them. That's why Woelf is here, he can fix pretty much anything and everything, and since everyone can playtest this stuff, we can make sure that it's not too powerful. @ Swift Nic- I believe that in his equipment, Woelf had something that fixed the fire mast issue.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 19, 2009 13:39:26 GMT -5
right, vlad...Woelf's Water Bucket equipment...that was a good one...
...anyway, let me get some of my cheaper ships in here...
since we were having a discussion of Turbines and their useful/uselessness...
English ~ 14pts ~ Galatea 3 masts, 3 cargo, move S+S, 3S, 3S, 3S
Turbine. This ship gets +L to her base move if she has all of her masts.
Outfitted with an experimental system of paddles driven by winches on the main deck of the ship.
mid-sized ship, powerful ability when it has masts, but can be countered...can be used for fighting or some treasure running if need be...toss a Navigator in the fleet and this ship can fly!
next...from my Exploration set...
English ~ 10pts ~ Matthew ~ Link - John Cabot 3 masts, 2 cargo, move S+S, 5S, 5S, 5S
If this ship is assigned a crew with the Explorer keyword she gets +L to her base move.
Small and agile ship hired by John Cabot to find a short sea route to Asia and the Northwest Passage. Landed on the eastcoast of North America instead.
speedy little ship, and yes Cabot has Explorer, so don't worry about the explorer needed for the ability to work taking up cargo...toss in First Mate Ismail and you've got 3 cargo...if you're using a lot of UTs, 3 is almost always enough to take an entire island...now if England only had a cargo master...
for Spain...
Spanish ~ 12pts ~ San Antonio ~ Link - Ferdinand Magellan 3 masts, 4 cargo, move S+S, 4S, 4L, 4S
If this ship begins her movement at least L away from any other ship, she gets +L to her base move.
One of five ships that set sail with Magellan's fleet bound for the East Indies. Would later desert the expedition and return to Spain.
...a bonus for straying away from the group? really...well, if you know the history of Magellan's fleet it makes sense...it even has 4 cargo and links to Magellan...
Spanish ~ 6pts ~ Ferdinand Magellan ~ Link - Enrique, Trinidad, Vittoria, Santiago, Concepcion
Explorer, Helmsman. Once per turn, if this ship carries treasure and is within S of an enemy ship, you may randomly trade one treasure with that ship.
(1480-1521) Commanded the first expedition that successfully completed a circumnavigation of the world. Always searching for more and more exotic goods and treasures to bring back to the Courts in Spain.
now, combined with the legendary explorer San Antonio has real potential...4 cargo, Explorer, Helmsman and able to trade treasure with enemies...of course Magellan works better on some of his other ships, which don't really have new abilities, just fun...
Spanish ~ 13pts ~ Trinidad ~ Link - Ferdinand Magellan 3 masts, 5 cargo, move S+S, 3S, 4L, 4L
This ship sinks when her last mast is eliminated. If this ship begins her movement within S of a friendly ship, she gets +S to her base move for each friendly ship within S of her.
Magellan's flagship during his expedition to find a new route to the East Indies. Started taking on water after loading cargo; the Vittoriahad to leave her behind so she could repair.
Spanish ~ 11pts ~ Vittoria ~ Link - Ferdinand Magellan 3 masts, 3 cargo, move S+S, 4S, 4S, 4S
If this ship has all of her masts, she gets +L to her base move.
Smaller than Magellan's flagship, Trinidad, but the only one from the expedition to return safely; making her the first ship to successfully sail around the world.
Spanish ~ 10pts ~ Concepcion ~ Link - Ferdinand Magellan 3 masts, 5 cargo, move S+S, 4S, 4S, 4S
Portuguese crew can use their abilities on this ship.
Magellan had originally intended for the crews of his ships to be made up mostly of Portuguese sailors, but was prevented by Spanish authorities; some Portuguese did however sail with Magellan's fleet after the great explorer insisted upon it. The authorities may have been correct because the captain of Concepcion was rumored to have mutinied.
...all of these ships can benefit nicely from an explorer/helmsman combo...Concepcion was done with the intent of having Portugal as a new faction (but it can be changed to something else...like using crew of any nationality instead...for only 1pts more).
you're probably asking about France now, right?
French ~ 3pts ~ Jacques Cartier ~ Link - Grande Hermine, Petite Hermine
Explorer. Once per turn, you may look at one face-down cargo on any island.
(1491-1557) Commissioned by the King of France to "discover certain islands and lands where it is said that a great quantity of gold and other precious things are to be found." Would claim the area now known as Canada for France. Documented the mannerisms of the native peoples and other facts about the area.
French ~ 10pts ~ Grande Hermine ~ Link - Jacques Cartier 3 masts, 5 cargo, move L, 4S, 3S, 4S
If this ship begins her movement within S of a friendly fort, she gets +S to her base move.
Given to Cartier by the King of France for his voyage to the New World in 1535 and later in 1541. Would lead Cartier's expedition up the St. Lawrence River into the heart of North America. Instrumental in establishing the first fortified French settlement in the New World.
French ~ 9pts ~ Petite Hermine ~ Link - Jacques Cartier 2 masts, 3 cargo, move S+S, 4S, 4S
Once per turn, one friendly ship within S of this ship may be given a free repair action.
Given to Cartier by the King of France for his voyage to the New World in 1535. After the crew was ravaged by disease in Canada, the ship would have to be left behind for the betterment of the expedition.
...forts needed some help, but I didn't want to actually make any forts...so I did the next best thing...makes those forts help your ships...using Grande Hermine and St. Pierre in combo can be very fun...you drop gold at the fort from Grande Hermine the fort gives it an extra action because of that and you get +S to its base move because of the ship's ability...pretty cool, right? Petite Hermine is basically a way to repair other ships without actually having a Shipwright...could be interesting in a gunfight; bring her alongside your bigger ships and just wait for one to get hit and repair her next turn...has some potential...Cartier, well, come on who doesn't like looking at the gold before they get there, right? plus he's an explorer and he links, so there's easy fun to be had.
...and just for my own amusement...
Portuguese ~ 11pts ~ São Gabriel ~ Link - Vasco da Gama 3 masts, 4 cargo, move S+S, 3L, 4S, 4S
If this ship begins her movement within S of an island, she gets +S to her base move.
Constructed under the supervision of the famous Portugese explorer Bartolomeu Dias specifically to round the Cape of Good Hope under the command of Vasco da Gama.
...duh...if you don't see the usefulness, you fail...the idea of the ability was based on how the Portuguese used to navigate by staying as close to the coastline as possible...what better way of representing that then a bonus for staying close to the islands...Henry the Navigator has the ability too and links with all Portuguese ships...the ability might be a little undercosted, but I wanted Portugal to get some kind of advantage...I think I gave it to a few other ships (1 Spain, 1 France)...but Portugal got the crew...anyway...
these are the mid-size ships I've done recently...
...lastly, proving there are still cheap ships to be made...
American ~ 4pts ~ USS Sea Horse 1 mast, 2 cargo, move L+L, 3L
Schooner. This ship sinks when her last mast is eliminated.
So dedicated is the Sea Horse's captain that he would burn the ship before letting it fall into enemy hands, especially the English.
...haha! America needs a ship like that! dump your captain on board and you're set for some cheap and short-lived fun! or if by some impossible chance it isn't rammed, you can use it to haul some treasure alongside...
American ~ 11pts ~ USS Experiment 3 masts, 4 cargo, move S+L, 3S, 3L, 3S
Schooner. When given an explore action, if this ship chooses the last treasure coin from an island, this ship can be given a move action.
Surveying ship often seen along the Atlantic coastline plying the waters in search of anything of interest be it information or more importantly treasure.
run the explorer on both, have Sea Horse run in pick up one coin, then run in with Experiment and take the rest and get the extra move action...has potential...even more when Navigators and Cargo Masters are added to the mix, plus if there's something bad on the island, you're only risking a 4pt ship and her explorer to find out (that is if you're not using Cartier, haha!).
...I may post a few more cheap ones later...
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Post by woelf on Aug 19, 2009 13:40:13 GMT -5
Would it be too much to ask for a Fireman crew, or a water pump or asbestos sails ? Anything to counter the dreaded fire mast rules! I've had my fleet burned up with no way of countering it too many times. Am I missing something ? Is there a way of putting out fire masts before your whole ship burns up? Make sure you're using the correct fire mast rules. They were revised in the Fire&Steel set along with the new fire shot equipment, but the changes were also applied retroactively to Firepot Specialists. Check out the second page (near the top) of the Pirate Code for the errata. The changes may not be perfect, but it tones them down significantly. There is now only a 1/3 chance of the fire spreading, but wqual chances of it going out or staying the same. Also, you only make the roll for fire when you give the ship an action. If you have the ship just sit there doing nothing, the fire will not spread (of course it won't go out either). The catch is that if you give the ship a second action in the same turn, it has to make the fire roll(s) a second time too. If they still burn up your entire fleet after the change, you're either doing something wrong or you're extremely unlucky. That, or your opponent is a sadist. Also, as Vlad mentioned I did include an item in the Equipment thread specifically to deal with fire masts. I would very much like to see an ability that allowes a ship to target another ship in the fog. Too many times I see Lord Mycron (a very powerful crew) on a cheap ship floating around in the fog. And you can't do a thing about it. And actually, a ship that says, "This ship ignores terrain when given a shoot action" would fix your problem, would it not? Actually, it wouldn't. All that would do is allow the ship with that ability to shoot at something on the other side of the fog bank. The fog affects both ships seperately - just because one might be able to ignore it, that doesn't mean the other one does too. The target ship remains "lost" in the fog where it can't be shot. It's the same reason the existing terrain-ignoring ships can't ram ships that are in fog. Both ships would have to ignore the fog at the same time - of course, even if an ability did allowed for that, you'd still have to determine the "lost" ship's position before resolving the attack (roll for the exit location, just like when a ship is hiding inside a smokepotted fog bank). Depending on positioning and the die roll, it's entirely possible that the target ship would pop out in a position that is beyond the ranges of the attackers cannons - which immediately makes the entire attack invalid. As for the problem, there really aren't that many options for dealing with a fogged Mycron (which really isn't that much different from having him camped out at a home island). Four that do work with varies levels of effectiveness: 1) Mermaids (event) doesn't require line of sight or a set range, so it can target a fogged ship - that would shut Mycron down for at least one turn, possibly more if there were other crew onboard such as a +5 0LR. 2) The All-Powerful Davy Jones or Emperor Blackheart could give Mycon's ship an action to move it out of the fog. 3) Ignore Mycron entirely and destroy/capture the rest of that player's fleet. Mycron isn't much use when there are no other ships left to take his ship's action. 4) Taunt the player mercilessly about using cheesy tactics and being a coward, until you've shamed them enough that they move the ship out of the fog.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 19, 2009 13:54:36 GMT -5
ew...I keep forgetting about Jones, he is evil like that! one UT I made up a while back that can resolve that and was oddly interesting (I made it because we have a house rule of not being able to go back into the same fog you just came out of or staying inside if you can move out, of course this doesn't impact Mycron in our games since he usually just sits at home on board something like HMS Ram or an English Turtle Ship ). anyway, the UT... Unique Treasure ~ Foghorn At the beginning of each of your turns, roll a d6. On a 5 or 6, choose one fog bank in play and remove it from the game. If there are any ships inside the chosen fog bank, the player who controls the ship rolls to see where the ship exits the fog bank before the fog bank is removed from the game. simple, limited use, but can be powerful, why wouldn't you want to find one, right? I'm guessing that it could probably also remove fog placed as smokepots too, since I remember being able to jump out of smoke using fog-hoppers like Hangman's Joke (oh, that was a fun fleet...Hangman's Joke towing Death's Anchor followed closely by Needle and Sea Hag...so much fun, and so evil...I had a Scorpion ship and Executioner dropping smoke). ...but killing the rest of the fleet is usually the best, that way you get to mock them afterward too! "Haha! I killed your whole fleet even though you had Mycron. Nanner nanner nanner!" I've put Mycron in unexpected places before, he was running around with Cook marking islands as explored for my treasure runners before I needed his ability to thrash some threatening gunships and then capturing said gunships...totally evil...and he never just stayed at home that day, it was so crazy...
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