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Post by vladsimpaler on Jul 29, 2009 23:20:36 GMT -5
I made this thread so that we wouldn't derail the new nation topic any more. First I'll start off with this: But, what can we do with the Pirates, England, France, Spain and America? Unless we add something so new that it flips the game around, what can we do with the Big Five? Do what you said, fill in holes. What I believe that we should do in this set is really try to cement each of the nation's roles: Pirates: Poor ships, good crew, treasure running, very swarmy French: Much like Pirates but European, have equal focus on fighting and treasure English: Mostly fighting focused, but do have some emphasis on gold Spain: Combo-oriented, very jack of all trades. More focused on gold, but can fight well if it boils down to it. I'm not being biased when I say that this is the most complex faction. America Very gung-ho, get in your face. I would argue that America is more fighty than the English, just in terms of ships. Almost no gold grabbing capabilities to speak of. Pirates don't need much, to be honest. They've always been the most powerful. I would explore a new direction for them, one more along the line of Privateers and gold-runners. French don't need much either, I am not an expert in the French so I'd need some suggestions from Danomight. English need some cheaper stuff, period, but still with an emphasis on the larger ships. Spain needs, in my opinion, stuff that isn't that good unless you combo it. None of their ships (sans the Cristobal and a few others) are really stars unless you combo stuff. The sac captain I designed for instance is very expensive, but if you know what to do, it will perform admirably. A single mistake makes it borderline terrible. Sorry, trying not to show bias but it's failing terribly. America just needs better crew. Ship wise they are passable, but their Achilles Heel is their terrible (yes, terrible) crew selection. They have 2 crew with the Eternal keyword, more crew that make your crew immune to being killed than I count with on my hands, but nothing that could help them in a typical game. These guys are more troubled than the Spanish and you have to be good to be able to win with these guys. Playing the Americans is akin to the Spanish of old in that you play with one hand tied behind your back. Should this set be more America centric? No, but just giving them some passable crew will alleviate the problem. Personally, for the first 3, just give them more stuff to solidify their role in game. America needs stuff to help it solidify its role in the game while actually being playable, Spain is somewhere inbetween. Just my opinion.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Jul 29, 2009 23:21:20 GMT -5
Admiralb: in a loose way, even Columbus could be a 'killer' crew for Spain, IF done right...he was accussed of cruelty while governing in the Caribbean...of course the charges were dropped by King Ferdinand, but who knows...we'd all like to see him done differently than that wouldn't we? more the explorer type, maybe some 'money-grubbing' Dominic Freda-type.
Also, one of my personal sets had one "Francisco de Toledo" who worked the native 'slaves' to death in the Spanish silver mines (yes, he is based on historical events; check the Wiki for actual time period, I wasn't paying much attention during the making of the set it was more fictional/fantasy based; Spain was really the only historical stuff in the set). I combo'd the "Eliminate a crew for an extra action" with "Coins with a silver printed number are worth +1." It sounds like an insane combo, but on the right ship, it could be awesome. The game is called Pirates, we should be 'killing for cash,' right?
even the ability by itself, like Mercer, could help Spain significantly. I know England got a decent boost after Mercer was introduced.
Cortez could be cool, not sure he'd be a Captain though...his major achievements were on land...maybe a Marine that kills for extra actions? interesting combo, wouldn't you say? Spain needs more interesting combos...I like the F&S Montana Mays because of the unique ability combo...Spain may be able to benefit from something done in a similar way, but uniquely Spain. ----- woelf: Interesting indeed.
That'd be worth about 9 points, I'd say. ----- vladsimpaler: Wait, would it be like, "Whenever this crew scores a hit, this ship gets an extra action"?
Or when he's on land, "Once per turn, when this crew scores a hit, it may fire again".
Or both.
Another cool thing would be, "All Spanish Musketeers are Marines." But we'll figure it all out during testing.
That would be pretty brutal. But I like it! The Spanish SAC crew can wait for a not so historical set, I think. : ) ----- admiralb: True, 9pts sounds about right...we could always make him Loyal: Spain and Hostile to something to drop it to 8pts...maybe...meh...just saying. interesting combos make interesting cards...Marine has never been combo'd with anything other than "This crew gets +1 against X."
Right now, I'm trying to make my own 'Age of Exploration' set...and Ponce de Leon is a Marine with "This ship's crew cannot be eliminated unless the ship sinks." I made him 7pts, based on the cheapest pricing of the ability: Decatur...who really only pays 2pts for that ability...Spain needs more 'deals' in crew costing...plus his ship(s) weren't terribly expensive in my costing, so I didn't want him being too hig priced and unusable on his own ship like Benito DeSoto (and almost Dragon Eyes...yeah, 10pt crew with an 11pt ship...hmm...I get an Oarsman too!).
whatever...when we get more stuff settled (like set theme, time period, etc.) we should all submit ideas and then maybe vote on our favorites...maybe...just a suggestion.
...now on to America...hmm...they need either a Captain, Helmsman combo OR a cheap SAT roller OR another cancellor crew-wise...ships...um...cheap, fast small ships...they are practically the gods of schooners it seems like...maybe make more 2-mast schooners for them, but actually good like La Monarca or Raven...but uniquely American...maybe a patrol ship with rare Jack Sparrow's ability (Move action after loading last treasure) or something like it. They could also use some more ships with BAD abilities...yes, I said it...like "Sinks when her last mast is eliminated" (or as I like to think "the captain goes down with the ship" or "the captain refuses to let the enemy capture his ship"...yeah, think of them not wanting the Corsairs to get their hands on their warships so they burn them up)...oh yeah...America needs another Marine too...England and France each got a 5pt Hostile one...America could use one too...maybe he links with all American ships...I do like the Link with all ships of said nation...we need some more of that too... ------- vladsimpaler: Why not an American Captain with an ability such as,
"When this ship would be sunk or scuttled, place all crew and treasure (besides this one) on the nearest wild island. Eliminate this crew."
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Post by admiralb on Jul 30, 2009 0:24:02 GMT -5
haha! it be here!
like I said in the other thread...your ability looks a lot like Raft and unless its 0pts, Eternal will always trump this in usefulness.
...umm...remember the ability San Cristobal had...'If this ship is assgined a crew with the Captain keyword, she gets +L to her base move." well, the whole "Age of Exploration" kick got me thinking that that ability is very combat oriented and the "Age of Exploration" was not, but I'd like an ability that makes these ships faster, but easy to get the bonus...so just replace Captain with Explorer and BOOM! a very treasure running oriented ability that can fit nice in an "Age of Exploration" themed set...and it doesn't even need to be limited to that theme, it would be awesome in many sets...its like 4pts, but who wouldn't love to see a ship like La Monarca with another +L move? throw in Dominic Freda as your Exporer since he doesn't take up cargo and even gives +1 cargo and then put your Helmsman...its crazy speed time!).
some other exploration related stuff... 1)+S if you being your movement within S of an island...easy to achieve...about 4pts. 2)friendly ships beginning their move within S of this ship get +S...again easy, but more expensive, like 7pts. 3)If this ship begins her movement within S of a friendly ship, she gets +S to her base move...yeah...I've shown this before as the ability of the 1-mast galley Arabian Nights.
fleet idea...the idea was you use Columbus and his 3 ships plus two more points worth of crew and you have a nice little 40pt fleet that has an obvious theme...and has pretty good speed to boot! let me get the whole thing up here...
Spanish ~ 5pts ~ Christopher Columbus ~ Link - Santa Maria, La Niña, La Pinta
Explorer, Navigator. One of this ship's treasure is worth +1 gold when unloaded at your home island.
(1451-1506) Italian born navigator, explorer, and colonizer who proposed a direct sea route to India so as to by-pass the Arab controlled land routes and taxes thus bringing more money into Spanish coffers. His voyage reached the Americas where he would set up a number of colonies for Spain.
Spanish ~ 11pts ~ Santa Maria ~ Link - Christopher Columbus 3 masts, 5 cargo, move S, 4S, 3L, 5S
If this ship is assigned a crew with the Explorer keyword she gets +L to her base move.
Largest and slowest of Columbus' three ships, but would keep pace with her faster counterparts during the Atlantic crossing.
Spanish ~ 11pts ~ La Niña ~ Link - Christopher Columbus 3 masts, 4 cargo, move L, 4S, 4S, 4S
This ship gets +L to her base move as long as she has all of her masts.
Originally named the Santa Clara, but was "renamed" by her crew for the ship's owner Juan Niño. Some claim the ship may had a fourth mast which may explain why she was noticeably faster than her traveling companion, Santa Maria.
Spanish ~ 11pts ~ La Pinta ~ Link - Christopher Columbus 3 masts, 3 cargo, move S+S, 5S, 4S, 5S
If this ship begins her movement within S of a friendly ship, she gets +S to her base move.
"The Painted One" was the fastest of Columbus' three ships during his first voyage to the New World.
its all about speed and exploration...the guns were only there because I needed them to at least have guns...Santa Maria was the flagship so she has the "best." you put a helmsman on one of them and you're off to the islands...I was thinking you'd keep them all together and go for one island at a time and use Columbus' "+1" to get a little more out your hauls.
we need more abilities like Skuld Blood-axe and Arazure..."If you win a boardin party, choose two: eliminate a crew, eliminate a mast, steal a treasure." maybe more crazy boarding stuff or just more crew with that ability...highly under-used ability, I've only seen it used twice: Arazure and "board from S" to take on subs and treasure runners. Second, Fool's Hope to mess with gunships (plus Fool's Hope can be decked out as a "god-ship" if you do it right).
...brings me to another point...the "god-combo" ...aka Eternal + Oarsman + Cancellor + Immortal Crew...figured it out yet? Oarsman says the ship is not derelict, Eternal so if you're sunk you come back, Immortal Crew so you can't lose any of the crew with any of these abilities, and cancellor to keep your opponent from cancelling any of the abiities...can only be easily stopped by: two cancellors OR Cursed Captain Jack OR by carrying Holy Water/Davy Jones' Heart...I've played it a few times...its scary...my "godly" Intrepid was sunk 3 times by Acorazado before the game was over! three times! it works even better on ships with more cargo...like Enterprise...I've even done it with the submarine USS Mercury...that was truly freightening...F&S Mays, RotF Ralph David, BC "Diamond" Nelson, Helmsman, Oarsman...that was crazy game...not as fast as the Intrepid build...but I'm getting away from the point...
...America has the best access to this combo. Pirates have limited access since the combo is somewhat expensive...Fool's Hope is easiest since it has built-in Eternal (add CC Jack Hawkins, Tia Dahlma, Oarsman, and Hammersmith to be the "god" of Pirates)...England has one ship that doesn't require non-English crew to do this with (HMS Ark Royal + Lawrence + Spencer Portland + Oarsman...its horrible compared to the American and Pirate ones though since there's no room for Captain, Helmsman). Anyway, I think the fact the other nations can't use the combo very easily may be a downside...like Spain...no Eternal; France - no Immortal Crew; Cursed - no Immortal Crew (plus no crew with cancellor). the "Crew of any nationality can use their abilities on this ship" really helps the Cursed a whole lot...drop a Parley in with it and they rule the waves...we have a campaign style game going on and the Cursed are using the Parley to their advantage to no end...Cavendish to bring in Nemesio Diaz, Captain Mysion, and they could very easily drop someone like Gus Schultz in on top of everything...the Guichuan is a BEAST! The nations that can't pull off a combo like this need something to pull them into the area of ridiculously awesome...speed, cargo, gold trading/hauling/adding, but still expensive to pull off, but if done correctly, they can wreak havoc on peoples' minds and chances of winning...or maybe even just make it easier to do certain things...like Cargo Masters are a good start, but giving America the only generic one just put them over the top in gunfights (oddly enough)...making their 4 cargo gunships into possible "god-ships."
...Spain seems to be going for speed at the moment with stuff like San Cristobal and Trinity. They should keep the trend, but get more universal stuff...like a Cargo Master type or Roboerto Santanna type, but for speed...Navigators are nice, but the die roll and giving up the action is a hindrance...not much, but Spain could really take advantage of something new and speed related...Pirates could too, but then again Pirates usually have a bit of everything.
...have I yammered on too long? maybe...
More treasure related ability...Banshee's Cry...can't fire while carrying treasure...maybe instead +L while carrying treasure...or +L if it doesn't carry treasure...maybe treasure takes up no cargo on this ship (inverse of Akua Lapu sort of). wait this is cool...
"If this ship carries treasure, friendly ships within S of this ship get +1 to their cannon rolls."
very Spanish treasure fleet...it depends on you having treasure, so the ability is cheaper than say the Hannah from Revolution...like maybe only 4 instead of 7+. maybe even do it with speed
"If this ship carries treasure, friendly ships beginning their movement within S of this ship get +S to their base move."
that'd be pretty cool...hmm...maybe I'll have to re-think Columbus' fleet...or not...or the grand-daddy of them all in our play group, an ability we've actually played with on special occassions and had tons of fun with...
"This ship gets +S to her base move for each mast she has when she begins her movement."
...oh yes...that's right we've actually taken into account the number of masts you have and made your ship fast based on that...it was so crazy with 10-masted junks...that's right again...we used this with the biggest of them all...you're moving 12S on your first turn! it was insane! only used on special occassions...like Christmas...we wanted ships we could use on other occassions like the Sleigh, but not as overpowering and annoying. We'd make a deckplate, everyone's ships would get those abilities and we'd totally wail on each other all while trying to achieve the overall goal for the day...usually a race or deliver the most "presents," or collect certain items from islands...they were usually rather expensive ships and we gave them a special keyword to distinguish them from regular ships (not that the junky cardboard they were printed on didn't do that anyway), but it is still one of the craziest abilities yet...side note: most ships with this ability had slow base move (S or L, depending on ship size usually). I think the ability was pretty expensive...let me calculate...6pts on 5-mast and under...but that doesn't take into account any point subtraction from the keyword that limits its use to only certain occassions...
...one more...those same ships almost always had the following also:
"If this ship is assigned a Shipwright crew, after she resolves a non-free action, she may be given a free repair action."
...the idea was that after you're done moving and shooting, boarding, and all that fun stuff you would then get the opportunity to repair one mast if you had a Shipwright on board...also, if you gave the ship a regular, non-free repair action, you could then repair another mast for free...getting back two masts is always better then one...plus since there was usually a lot of running an gunning in these games getting back a mast always helped you stay alive longer and it would make you got faster next turn when combined with the ability above (+S for each mast at the beginning of your move action)...
whoo...that was a whole lot of talky talk...I mean typie type...or...whatever.
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Post by admiralb on Jul 30, 2009 0:38:30 GMT -5
...um...maybe we need an area just for whole cards and not just ideas...my "Age of Exploration" is going to be growing...England, Spain, and France each have 3 famous explorers and a few ships (trying for at least one per explorer...maybe more when appropiate, like Columbus)...and Portugal has 2 crew and 2 ships (just in case we decide to go with a new nation)...need more ships...maybe Vasco da Gama needs all 5 of his ships to be made? eh, whatever...oh yeah...plus, Magellan's translator Enrique was actually a pretty useful crew to make...Parley and "Crew of any nationality can use their abilities on this ship." fun and useful! and he links to Magellan! whoo..wait can I use the combo on any of Magellan's ships? hmm...3-masters aren't very expensive now are they? hmm...retool in store maybe...
I asked if anyone thought the Italians should get Ex-patriot because a number of them actually went to more than one government until they got their funding...they seemed to be out to make money on the voyage, but needed more than they had to actual fund the thing. Ex-patriot seemed appropriate because of the fact that they probably would have worked for whatever government footed the bill...Columbus went to Portugal first if I remember correctly, Cabot went to a number of others before England. Verrazzano was invited by the King of France...ok, bad example...but even Henry Hudson was contracted by the Dutch at one time if memory serves me...so, representing this fact in the game is easiestly represented by Ex-patriot...granted giving the ship the Mercenary keyword is not what I intended, but the part about allowing the crew with the Ex-pat keyword to serve on any nationality ship does seem to fit the idea. Maybe modify the Ex-pat keyword to say 'If this crew is of Mercenary faction, this ship gains the Mercenary keyword.' instead of what it says now about Mercenary keyword...oh well...although if I did give out Ex-pats they could get the MI +1 bonus when on linking ships...sounds "Age of Exploration" to me!
...anyone? anyone? Bueller? (sorry, I couldn't resist).
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cleverpun
Master & Commander
I need more wenches / More wenches and mead
Posts: 46
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Post by cleverpun on Jul 30, 2009 2:45:48 GMT -5
I like the idea of giving America better crew selection (aside from Commodore Peregrin Stern in SS they still are rather short on powerhouse crew)
I dislike quoting myself, but if we want to take each nation in a slightly different direction, then we could introduce new colonies or holdings of the nations as new pieces.
From the other board:
May be some Cuban crew or something for the Americans? It was an American holding at one point I believe...
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Post by admiralb on Jul 30, 2009 2:53:01 GMT -5
True...I think Wk may have been thinking this too, cleverpun...I remember hearing something about 10-masters in RtSS that would be simliar to the SS ones just for different nations...or something along those lines...I'd be willing to bet there was a 10-mast junk that could use American crew that was linked to Osvaldo de Deus Celements who was Hostile to Spain (same as Stern)...and probably another that could use Spanish crew that linked with Luc Savard who was Hostile to America...makes sense, right? maybe TOO much sense...
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Post by vladsimpaler on Jul 30, 2009 15:43:32 GMT -5
One of the sets I made had the 3 ships an Colombus, a bit different from yours. I'm not posting this to compete with you, just to show how I did it. Also, these ships all strike a sort of "after discovering the New World", not before it. Christopher Columbus, Spanish, 3 points, [Common] (Link: Nina, Pinta, Santa Maria) Abilities: Explorer. This crew may only be used on one of his linked ships. This ship ignores the Unique Treasure "Natives", but not "Native Reinforcements". As long at least the Nina or the Pinta or the Santa Maria are in this fleet, one of each of those ship's treasures is worth +2 gold when unloaded at your home island. Having discovered America, Christopher Columbus has decided that he will continue to help the Spanish navy, but mostly for his own benefit. Quick note: Native Reinforcements was a crew I designed that put up to 5 points of generic crew on the ship. Santa Maria, 8 points, Spanish [Common] Masts: 3 Cargo: 4 Speed: S+L Cannons: 4S 4L 4S Abilities: Carrack. Allied ships named Niña or La Pinta gain this ability: "When given an explore action, if this ship chooses the last treasure coin from an island, this ship can be given a move action." The Santa Maria, led by Christopher Colombus along with the Niña and the Pinta, discovered America even before Jamestown was settled. Now Spain and England are locked in an eternal battle, as each of them stakes their claim in the New World. La Pinta, 7 points, Spanish [Common] Masts: 2 Cargo: 2 Speed: S+S Cannons: 6S 6S Abilities: Caravel. Once per turn, if this ship is within S of an island, you may mark the island as explored without docking at it. The fastest of the three ships which Columbus used to try and find a passage to the East Indies, La Pinta has found use in scouting out new islands in the Caribbean. Niña, 5 points, Spanish [Common] Masts: 2 Cargo: 3 Speed: S+S Cannons: 6S 6S Abilities: Caravel. Perhaps the unluckiest of all three ships, the Niña is almost permanently confined to run supplies from other Spanish colonies to Havana. I also had the idea of this: Nuestra Señora de la Concepción, 21 points, Spanish [Rare] Masts: 5 Cargo: 10 Speed: L Cannons: 3S 3S 3S 3S 3S Abilities: Galleon. Treasure Ship. This ship does not require a linked crew to be played. Nuestra Señora de la Concepción, or "Cacafuego", is one of Spain's most glorified Treasure Ships, as its hull allows it to give more riches to Spain than other treasure fleets combined. Because of this, it is rumored that Sir Francis Drake has his eyes on this vessel.----- In any case though, I like the idea of Colombus being a Navigator, I made these crew a bit before SS. Perhaps he doesn't have to give up his move action to be a Navigator? That would be nifty. --- cleverpun- For the most part, I think that Cuban (and Italian) crew should be relegated to Spanish, unless they are like that one Cuban dude that rebelled. :edit: For some massive irony, look at this ship that I designed way before RotF came out. San Crístobal, 16 points, Spanish [Uncommon] Masts: 4 Cargo: 7 Speed: S Cannons: 3S 2S 2S 3S Abilities: Galleon. If this ship succeeds in its galleon roll, ignore the first 3 hits of every shoot action instead. San Crístobal's capitan boasts that his ship is strong enough to withstand any bombardment-a boast that only Sir Francis Drake himself would dare to test. Essentially, Galleons ignored the first hit of a shoot action if they had all of their masts on a 3+, but they couldn't shoot at small ships within S of them. And they were slow.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 1, 2009 14:42:38 GMT -5
haha! What's kind of funny is that one of the Portuguese ships I have in text format right now is a Portuguese version of 'Saint Christopher' as Bartolomeu Dias' linked ship...it was a Portuguese warship of the time that Dias was master of...3-master with "+1 against non-Portuguese" yeah, it sounds boring, but if they were to actually be added to the game they'd need some sort of gunship...Dias himself was a "Musketeer, Helmsman. One of this ship's treasure is worth +1 gold when unloaded at your home island." the flavor text fills in why I chose that combo..."(1451-1500) Dias was a cavalier of the royal court, superintendent of the royal warehouses, and sailing-master of the man-of-war, São Cristóvão. First modern European to round the Cape of Good Hope and return. Would later sail with Carbal on his voyage to India."
cavalier of the royal court - Musketeer superintendent of the royal warehouses - "+1 gold" sailing-master - Helmsman
interesting cobo for 7pts and he links to São Cristóvão, which was low on cargo, but the "+1 gold" helps that a bit...if I can find the ship he used to round the Cape I may make it too with better cargo...throwing some things out there for y'all to chew on...
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Post by lord_denton on Aug 1, 2009 15:18:24 GMT -5
Stickied at OP's request.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 1, 2009 18:27:35 GMT -5
does anyone want to see the checklist so far for my Age of Exploration mini-set?
I was doing some Potuguese for fun...not sure if they'll actually make it into a set, but I had to make Vasco da Gama and Henry the Navigator which ultimately lead to the rest of the Portuguese...of course they probably need to be fleshed out more and made more unique from Spain, but they're interesting...more of a swarming than Spain, plus they're crew are probably more essential to their victory than Spain.
Oddly enough, England needs more stuff in this set than the others...of course Portugal can use more ships, but not crew. I think France and Spain have the most at the moment...7+ ships each and at least 4 crew each. England only has 3 crew and 5 ships...oh yeah, and I have Leif Ericson just for fun...don't worry I have a few "Crew of any nationality..." in there.
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cke1st
Ordinary Seaman
Posts: 8
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Post by cke1st on Aug 1, 2009 20:58:04 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
I was amazed (as well as disappointed) when the USA got neither a Bombardier, a Switchblade, nor a Turbine. The Americans have a long history of tinkering with things and making them cheaper, more reliable, or more useful. How could they see other navies using these nifty gadgets and not at least try to reverse-engineer them?
I've made many complaints on Pojo about the lack of useful American crew, and the repetition of semi-useful abilities compounded by the repetition of names, so even if you wanted to use those mediocre combo crew, you're crippled by the fact that you can use only one Montana Mays at a time.
They definitely need a SAT or 2nd-action crew who won't break the bank. They are the only faction (aside from the Corsairs) who can't rob an enemy home island. A crew with the "once/turn, one hit kills an enemy crew" ability wouldn't go amiss, either.
The French should have a combination Captain and Chainshot Specialist, to reflect their real-life preference toward cutting up the enemy's rigging.
The Spanish ought to have a low-priced crew with just the Secret Hold ability, to reflect their treasure-consciousness.
More thoughts later.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 2, 2009 12:43:02 GMT -5
A few thoughts: I was amazed (as well as disappointed) when the USA got neither a Bombardier, a Switchblade, nor a Turbine. The Americans have a long history of tinkering with things and making them cheaper, more reliable, or more useful. How could they see other navies using these nifty gadgets and not at least try to reverse-engineer them? I've made many complaints on Pojo about the lack of useful American crew, and the repetition of semi-useful abilities compounded by the repetition of names, so even if you wanted to use those mediocre combo crew, you're crippled by the fact that you can use only one Montana Mays at a time. They definitely need a SAT or 2nd-action crew who won't break the bank. They are the only faction (aside from the Corsairs) who can't rob an enemy home island. A crew with the "once/turn, one hit kills an enemy crew" ability wouldn't go amiss, either. The French should have a combination Captain and Chainshot Specialist, to reflect their real-life preference toward cutting up the enemy's rigging. The Spanish ought to have a low-priced crew with just the Secret Hold ability, to reflect their treasure-consciousness. More thoughts later. Well if it isn't the infamous Cadet Captain Mike! Welcome aboard! As for the Americans not getting these ships, I just don't think that they would work out in this set, but it does make sense. We could probably put in some tech stuff, but maybe more along the lines of equipment. They do need an extra action crew with a new name. French do need this, but the chainshot should eliminate masts. With the amount of useless Spanish crew there are, one with Secret Hold would just increase the pile.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 2, 2009 14:20:35 GMT -5
what about Secret Hold combined with another cheap ability? like Explorer or even Jonah's ability? maybe they also link with all Spanish ships...
more captains with interesting ability combinations sounds cool, each nation could get a distinctly unique combo...like French would have something like "Captain. When this ship succeeds at a boarding party, also eliminate a mast from the enemy ship." probably be around 5-7pts...if I played French on any regular basis, I'd probably use a crew like that on a "board from S" ship like Le Gaule.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 2, 2009 18:13:26 GMT -5
I don't think that should happen. If I opened a pack and found a Spanish crew with Secret Hold and Explorer, I would ticked off.
Do you want a crew like that? Not really.
French should have a 6 or 7 (I'm leaning towards 7) point Captain that reads,
"Loyal: France. Captain, Chainshot Specialist. This ship may move S after completing any sort of shoot action."
Combined with the ability to move S afterwards, this is a really deadly combo, and I'm sure that French players would like to play with something like that, as French are more defensive and annoying like that. It's powerful, but beatable with something as simple as a canceler.
I really want to stray away from giving any nation any sort of ability that is all relative. Secret Hold is useful once in a blue moon.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 2, 2009 18:43:44 GMT -5
true, but its also cheap...I suppose if there were more useful abilities that stole treasure Secret Hold would be cool...what about a crew that gives all your ships Secret Hold of a certain nationality? not that I'm some bizarre Secret Hold junky of something, but we need more useful discussion.
I doubt Chainshot Specialist would be a keyword because we have a chainshot equipment also...and the way you have it phrased the new ability can be used with a captain...obviously that's what you're going for, but it just doesn't sound right for some reason...the any just doesn't seem to match up with how Wk worded their abilities...maybe what might be interesting is an ability that says something like "Once per turn, if this ship eliminates an enemy mast, this ship may be given a free move action." or even "Once per turn, if this ship succeeds at a boarding party, she may be given a free move action." they'd be pretty useful against those "extra action" monsters and really tie them up. also, the submarine's ability to move away S after ramming while submerged should be looked at too...
...oddly enough, if you use an ability to move away after shooting you can combine it with Smokepot for a really annoying strategy...and don't say cancellor because anyone who is fielding a real gunship has a cancellor on board...so think of the cancellor as being useless most of the time, but you have to have them to even have a chance at getting the first shot. plus cancellors can't cancel equipment...
if we were to give France something like that we have to give the other nations similarly powerful abilities to make it seem balanced.
on a lame sidenote: Secret Hold is the treasure equivalent of "this ship's cerw cannot be eliminated unless the ship sinks." done correctly the Frontier can be decked out as a nearly immortal treasure hauler...add Eternal, Cancellor, Oarsman, Mays, Helmsman and you still have a point leftover and 4 cargo to grab coins that can't be taken. its interesting, but too expensive to be truly competitive. just throwing around ideas on what could be done...maybe we need to think of new combos that can be really fun and powrful, but need some setup or points to do right...
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