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Post by cannonfury on Aug 13, 2009 17:32:18 GMT -5
thats a way too powerful ability, the only way i could see this being fair is 16-18 points, because thats just overpowering your opponnent
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Post by admiralb on Aug 13, 2009 18:28:52 GMT -5
I've always been leary of the capture an opponent's ship abilities I've seen people make up...since I've played with and against Harbinger (and similar) I know how powerful it can be. I've won games because with it...captured the last ship standing, etc.
If anything...maybe make an ability similar to OE Jones where you can control an enemy ship...like maybe if you win a boarding party against an enemy ship this new crew allows you to then give the boarded ship an action immediately as if it were part of your fleet...reminiscent of some HorrorClix stuff I used to play (Voodoo Priest, Mi-Go). of course make it expensive, 6+ and it could work this way...you just don't get to keep it after your turn...I think the ability was called Insanity or something in HrC...
You wonder why I never put the ability to get gold off killed crew in one of my sets? now, we know...it has too much abusive potential and I was too lazy to try to figure out a better way...althoug I like Woelf's suggestion of getting a single gold and not face value...has potential and has some interesting flavor...you killed that dude on the boarding party and stole his wallet, which had 1 gold in it...um, yay! what might also be interesting...
a Parley on boarding actions...maybe something like "If one of this ship's crew would be eliminated by an enemy action, you may take a treasure coin off of your home island and place it on the enemy player's home island." its worded weirdly, but the idea is there...basically, you pay the enemy to not kill your crew, a bribe of sorts since the game is suppose to be about gold...I'm sure there's a way of making the ability more offensive than defensive.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 13, 2009 19:43:56 GMT -5
Hm...how about something like this:
Commandeer-8 points (?) Whenever this ship wins a boarding party against a ship with no crew, you may take control of that ship, its nationality changes to this ship's. You must also put one of your crew on that ship. If you do not, once per turn, roll a d6. On a 3-6 it reverts to its original nationality and is controlled by its original owner.
So against any normal ship, you're going to have to kill off several crew, win a boarding party, and THEN you have to put your own crew on it. If you don't, chances are it will stab you in the back.
It's probably too cheap, especially combined with some of the stuff that some nations have. (Like the Inquisitor or White Crew), but even then it's at least a 14 point combo, and then you need a ship for it.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 14, 2009 21:29:35 GMT -5
hmm...seems more balanced there, vlad...if you get a chance to playtest it, I'd love to know how it goes...maybe the Commandeer crew has to go on board the captured ship and doesn't count toward the points? might be a bit easy to take those tiny treasure runners like Bon Marin, but in the grand scheme, it would happen like that in real life...big ol' ship boards tiny boat and captures it...has potential...
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Post by marhawkman on Aug 22, 2009 20:41:45 GMT -5
I like that one Vlad. The earlier Bomb Ketch idea kinda annoys me. Not being able to move+ shoot tends to make for getting bum-rushed. Maybe include something analogous to turtle ship to balance out the defensive suckitude? And for my own idea: Ramming attack When this ship rams another, the rammed ship loses a mast before the ramming damage is done. This ship cannot be pinned because of ramming. This ability can be used while submerged, if it is, move this ship so that it is no longer touching the rammed vessel.
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Post by Commodore Vendari on Aug 24, 2009 8:26:19 GMT -5
Nice idea, but the submerged portion isn't necessary. Submarines already move S away, and Sea Monsters aren't pinned anyway. Other than that, I like it. Maybe a 4 or 5 point ability.
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Post by lord_denton on Aug 24, 2009 10:38:52 GMT -5
Nice idea, but the submerged portion isn't necessary. Submarines already move S away, and Sea Monsters aren't pinned anyway. Other than that, I like it. Maybe a 4 or 5 point ability. Sea Monsters can't ram while submerged anyways.
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Post by marhawkman on Aug 24, 2009 13:16:22 GMT -5
Nice idea, but the submerged portion isn't necessary. Submarines already move S away, and Sea Monsters aren't pinned anyway. Other than that, I like it. Maybe a 4 or 5 point ability. Sea Monsters can't ram while submerged anyways. Exactly. Though in hindsight it seems a bit imbalanced to be able to ram your opponent endlessly while submerged.
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Post by Commodore Vendari on Aug 25, 2009 14:11:52 GMT -5
Sea Monsters can't ram while submerged anyways. Exactly. Though in hindsight it seems a bit imbalanced to be able to ram your opponent endlessly while submerged. To lord_denton: That one slipped my mind. To marhawkman: On the flip side, ramming only removes masts. It cannot sink ships. But I do agree, however. There should be a limit as to how long a submarine can remain submerged. In real life, the passengers of a submarine would have to come up for air.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 25, 2009 14:29:03 GMT -5
interesting point about subs and air, cv...I can see some being able to stay down longer like Nautilus, Mercury, Locker and Pyre...the others not as much...hmm...maybe a nice piece of equipment could solve that...something all subs would love to use, but had to pay for by surfacing every so often...maybe something similar to Devil Ray's "+L while submerged" but with a downside of having to surface every 3 turns or something...
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 12, 2009 10:03:14 GMT -5
Hmm.. I was contemplating "new" keywords that could represent old abilities.
Friendly: X Crew only, "This crew can use it's abilities on X ships."
Liason: X "X Crew may use their abilities on this ship."
Ambassador "Crew of any nationality may use their abilities on this ship."
what do you guys think?
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Post by woelf on Sept 12, 2009 16:48:15 GMT -5
Hmm.. I was contemplating "new" keywords that could represent old abilities. Friendly: X Crew only, "This crew can use it's abilities on X ships." Liason: X "X Crew may use their abilities on this ship." Ambassador "Crew of any nationality may use their abilities on this ship." what do you guys think? The text for those abilities is fairly short already, so switching them into keywords isn't necessary. Unless the text of an ability is too long to fit in a standard ability box and/or it's combined with a few other long abilities, it's better to leave them as text. It'll also save the trouble of having to keep referring to the rulebook to see what your ship or crew can do.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 12, 2009 19:53:01 GMT -5
Hmm... Part of the reason I came up with this idea is that the same is true of Hostile. then again hostile is almost always combined with at least 2 other effects. These aren't quite the same way.
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Post by Commodore Vendari on Sept 28, 2009 22:26:42 GMT -5
interesting point about subs and air, cv...I can see some being able to stay down longer like Nautilus, Mercury, Locker and Pyre...the others not as much...hmm...maybe a nice piece of equipment could solve that...something all subs would love to use, but had to pay for by surfacing every so often...maybe something similar to Devil Ray's "+L while submerged" but with a downside of having to surface every 3 turns or something... Ah! There's something: putting a three turn limit on submerged subs has worked for me in the past. If that rule can be instated, maybe an equipment (Oxygen Tank?) could be made to keep them under longer; say five turns at maybe 3 or 4 points? It can be eliminated in boarding parties.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 30, 2009 9:05:19 GMT -5
Well, the problem there is that you end up with a massive retcon of everything that can submerge....
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