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Post by chasseur85 on Jul 28, 2009 15:33:03 GMT -5
I was thinking since our objective here will be to save space and money while making good-quality cards to place all abilities/keywords/ship types here so that IF THIS GETS TO PRINT, we can just re-read this instead of digging through piles of paper at home.
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Post by chasseur85 on Jul 28, 2009 15:39:29 GMT -5
These are my thoughts:
Discipline: This pretty much combines the "If this ship has a captain crew, then she gets +1 to her cannon rolls" and the helmsman ability. Not sure the cost.
Fluyt (If Dutch Chosen): This ship is Immune to Danish Taxes (see below). One of this ship's treasures is worth +2 gold when she docks at your home island. (Due to security of goods). Secret Hold. ____ Points
Danish: (If Denmark Chosen) When this ship explores its first wild island, draw an imaginary marker from the island to your Home Island. It cannot cross terrain or islands, so if not possible explore alternate islands until possible. Then draw the line. Any non-Danish ship that crosses the line roll a d6. That ship must pay the result in gold. If not possible the difference from the die result and the gold on the ship and eliminate that many masts from that ship.
Battery: This can be set up anywhere on the map except for on submerged ships, ships, or terrain. It counts as part of your build total and cannot be eliminated nor moved until all cannons are destroyed.
If we do new crew (generic):
Powder Monkey: Once per turn one of this ship's cannons may shoot twice, regardless whether it hits or misses.
Lieutenant: This ship's crew cannot be eliminated unless Lieutenant is eliminated.
Sailor: This ship gets +1 to her boarding rolls. This crew can be stacked, however, limit 3 sailors per ship.
New Events:
Mysterious Inlet: Reveal this token during one of your turns when an enemy ship is docked at an island. That ship's player must roll a d6. On a 1-2 no effect, on a 3-4 savage natives attack and eliminate a crew, and on a 5-6 hidden pirates attack. Roll a d6 on that result (5-6) and for every result higher than 4, eliminate a mast and a crew.
Magazine Explosion: Reveal this when one of your ships has successfully been scuttled. Every ship with L of the scuttled ship has a mast removed, and for every ship within S has a mast removed and two fire masts added.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Jul 28, 2009 15:48:43 GMT -5
I didn't lie when I said that I had a ton of abilities. Will all of them get used? Probably not. But I hope that these spurn some good ideas! Lethal BarrageYou may only use this ability once per turn, and only if this ship is within S of an enemy ship. This ship eliminates two masts with one hit, and receives a +1 to attack. This ship may not be given any actions the next turn after using this ability. Close CombatIf this ship is within less than S of an enemy ship, she gets +2 to her cannon rolls. However, that enemy ship gets +2 to its cannon rolls against this ship. Unparalleled Leadership, This ship may move and shoot using the same move action. Allied ships within L of this ship receive +1 to any roll they make. Once per turn, choose one allied ship other than this ship that is within S of this ship. Once per turn, it eliminates two masts when it hits. Elite Gunners, This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls every time she sinks an enemy ship. Corrupt LeadershipThis ship may move and shoot using the same move action. Whenever this ship attacks an enemy ship, the opponent may choose to take one random, non-unique treasure and put it on this ship. This ship may not attack that ship for as many turns equal to the amount of gold points the treasure had. Treasure HunterIf an allied ship would end its turn within S of this ship, you may choose to look at one face-down treasure on any ship or island. This ability may be used multiple times in one turn. Bounty, 0 pointsChoose one enemy ship. All ships with the keyword Mercenary or Ex-patriot crew (including this ship) gain +1 to their cannon rolls against that ship, in addition to any other modifiers they may arelady have. When that ship is defeated, subtract gold from your total equivalent to that ship's masts. If you can't, remove all Ex-Patriot and Mercenaries from your fleet. CourageAll friendly ships within S of this ship, including this ship, are immune to any ability that would lower a ship's stats. In addition, this ability cannot be canceled unless this ship has no crew. Poorly crewed shipsIf this ability is on a crew, it starts face up. This ability cannot be copied. Every ship in this fleet gets a permanent -1 to its cannon rolls, and costs 3 points less, but crew placement goes for the original cost. This ability cannot be canceled. Savage BarrageAll of this ship's cannons can fire twice at a -1 to hit. Enemy ships get +1 to their cannon rolls to this ship the turn after this ability is used. Carrack ( 3 mast ships)When a ship with a less original number of masts than this ship's original masts scores a hit against this ship, roll a d6. On a 2-6, ignore the hit. As a free action, this ship may rotate its stern 90 degrees after completing a move action, but not after a ram. (For house rules: If used in a game that employs wind, and is going against or has its side to the wind's direction, roll a d6. On a 5 or 6, this ship becomes a wreck.) Mortar ShipGame pieces and terrain do not block this ship's line of fire. This ship can only fire if it does not move, and cannot fire at ships within S of this ship. You may choose to add +S to your cannon ranges, but for each addition S added, subtract 1 from the die roll. This ability can only be used against enemy ships that did not move last turn. Caravel (2 Mast ships or less)This ship gets +L to its base move if it has all of its masts. (For house rules: If used in a game that employs 'shallow' or 'coastal' water, this ship gets +S to its base move on the shallow or coastal water.) InsaneThis ship may move and shoot using the same move action. This ship must fire upon any ship in its range, and can only be given a move action if it cannot immediately shoot. Also, it can only be given move and/or shoot actions, and is not subject to abilities that contain "within S" or "within L". At the beginning of your turn, you must eliminate a crew or it cannot move or shoot. Raking FireWhen this ship eliminates 2 masts or more during a single shoot action, eliminate 2 cargo and one extra mast. Privateer: XThis ship/crew counts as X nation for roll augmentation and fleet placement, but also counts as its original nation. X nation crew may use their abilities on this ship. SaboteurThis crew takes up no cargo. At the beginning of the game, if you choose, you may place this crew on an enemy ship, it links to that ship and does not interfere with crew placement. Once per turn, at the beginning of every one of your opponent's turns, roll a d6. On a 1, place this crew facedown. On a 6, you may give the ship this crew is on an action. If this crew is not used on an enemy ship, you may cancel one enemy ability within S of this ship. Live Wood HullWhen this ship is hit by an L range cannon, roll a d6. On a 5 or 6, ignore the hit. When this ship is hit by an S range cannon, roll a d6. On a 6, ignore the hit. PonderousThis ship may only move, if, at the beginning of each of your turns, you roll a 2-6 on a d6 roll. This ship's speed may not be decreased unless she is derelict. This ship may only move as long as she makes her d6 roll. SwiftThis ship may move double her speed in its turn, but she cannot shoot,and all enemy ships get a -2 to her cannon rolls against her. UpstartThis ship may start S away from its home island. RuthlessWhen this ship wins a boarding party, eliminate 1d6+1 crew of your choice. The controller of the losing ship must roll 1d6 for each lost crew. For each d6 roll of a 5 or 6, also eliminate a mast from the vessel.
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Riz
Master & Commander
As bloody as I wanna be!
Posts: 55
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Post by Riz on Jul 28, 2009 16:49:36 GMT -5
I didn't lie when I said that I had a ton of abilities... WOW you weren't kidding! These are great, and even if they do not make it to print I am going to put them on my site as alternate rules keywords (with your permission, and granting you credit)
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Post by lord_denton on Jul 28, 2009 17:37:22 GMT -5
Vlad and chasseur, I like your abilities, alot of them don't require new ship types.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Jul 28, 2009 18:03:07 GMT -5
I didn't lie when I said that I had a ton of abilities... WOW you weren't kidding! These are great, and even if they do not make it to print I am going to put them on my site as alternate rules keywords (with your permission, and granting you credit) I'd be honored to have my stuff posted on your website, which is great by the way! Thank you very much for the compliment. You definitely have my permission, what is mine is yours. I also have some more, how shall we say supernatural abilities relating to the Cursed, but as I figured we were going to do a historical set they wouldn't be needed.
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cleverpun
Master & Commander
I need more wenches / More wenches and mead
Posts: 46
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Post by cleverpun on Jul 29, 2009 2:42:29 GMT -5
Some interesting abilities guys. Some of them seem a little unbalanced, and chasseur, I think you could reword yours a bit better: I couldn't quite understand what they were supposed to do from reading them. And isn't Battery a little too similar to Flotilla?
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Post by chasseur85 on Jul 29, 2009 8:57:15 GMT -5
Supposedly it's a combination of a flotilla and a fort. It can't be towed or moved, like a fort, and it can be built in the game, like a fort. However, it costs points, like a flotilla, and it can be accessed and built anywhere except terrain, ships, and submerged ships, which pretty much covers the domain of the flotilla.
I don't see where a person could be extremely confused on any ability except for the Danish; you will need to re-read it, not everything makes sense the first time around.
Btw to those of you that have posted abilities please EDIT your posts as you go along and maybe bold the abilities so that we won't get a huge list of abilities all from the same person and so that we know which ones are abilties and which ones are the keywords.
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Post by lord_denton on Jul 29, 2009 13:40:32 GMT -5
I shall bold Vlad's keywords for him. ( If he doesn't mind )
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Post by vladsimpaler on Jul 29, 2009 14:16:51 GMT -5
I shall bold Vlad's keywords for him. ( If he doesn't mind ) Nope, not at all. Any abilities that are "unbalanced" can be balanced by cost.
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cleverpun
Master & Commander
I need more wenches / More wenches and mead
Posts: 46
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Post by cleverpun on Jul 30, 2009 2:53:26 GMT -5
I don't see where a person could be extremely confused on any ability except for the Danish; you will need to re-read it, not everything makes sense the first time around. That is the one I was referring to. I understand it, but my point is that it could've been more clearly worded (the second sentence in particular [and the third is a sentence fragment]). Just because I can understand it doesn't mean it should take a few tries. Although to be fair, more than a few of the abilities WizKids thought up required a bit of mental activity to figure out ;D.
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Post by admiralb on Jul 30, 2009 4:21:18 GMT -5
hmm...looking at some stuff (ok, all the stuff so far...I'm bored)...
Unparalleled Leadership would be a rather expensive ability...even if you drop the Captain part its still pretty expensive...and the "eliminate two masts"...all friendly ships within L get +1 to all die rolls...ALL! that's crazy...so, cannons, boarding, MI rolls, terrain, extra actions...c'mon...I tried justifying an ability that said "This ship gets +1 to all die roll results." bust decided it was too powerful...I even priced it at 9pts and made it Limit and it was still too powerful...break it down..."+1 boarding" is 4pts, "+1 to cannons against non-X ships" is 4pts, you're looking at 8pts at the very least right there. "+1 to MI rolls" is less than 1pt, but when you also have "+1 to terrain" and "+1 to extra actions" you're looking at something in the neighborhood of 16pts total...think about Hermione Gold and Diamond Nelson from F&S, this ability is basically as good as that, plus it works on "all friendly ships within L" that's almost insane...ok, I don't mean that, but an ability that powerful would need a Limit keyword attached to even be remotely playable. also, think about ships like Hannah, USS Springfield, USS Denver...all overpriced because of their ability to give friendly ships within a certain distance just "+1 to their cannon rolls." Sorry, to go off like this, but that ability is WAY too powerful for a 40pt game and would be so ridiculously expensive you'd never see it played outside 100+pt deathmatches.
Live Wood seems too similar to Catamaran.
Ponderous would have to be negative points to be useful...I mean there's a 1 in 6 of not being able to move at all...its like getting stuck on a sargasso sea...scratch that...sargasso is worse...my Couer du Lion was stuck for 5 turns last week...although it could be nice on some weird little Pirate ships...like Jolly Mon-esque...
Swift...not sure about...so you can move twice as fast, but you can't shoot, but you're also protected from being shot because of the -2 to enemy cannon rolls against it...odd...I have no idea how to price that...-1 for the can't shoot...but probably +2 for the enemy cannon reducer and then probably 4 or more for the move twice as fast (more like 6-8 though).
Upstart...why? Mercenary can do that...they just can't dock at the home island...if you really needed to do this on a small ship, get a Ex-patriot and stick them on there then leave them on an island later...or transfer them to another ship tht won't be docking...plus, we have canoes now that can actually start the game at a wild island...start at a MI and on the first turn have them all move and dock at the MI and roll for the effect...you can possibly get gold home without exploring!
I like Ruthless, it has potential...somewhat like Skuld Blood-axe, but could be more devastating...at least 7pts...since it can take masts too.
Raking Fire needs better wording, but can be cool...expensive, but cool (probably 4pts, maybe more). See the Cursed canoes, Kian Ng, Double Shot...it sounds like a mix of a few of these...
The caravel ability practically exists...HMS Interceptor...I really don't want to see ship-type abilities that are the same as existing abilities...it just seems to be rather a waste of a new keyword. If you added something else in there in addtion to that, I might buy it (like Longship gets +1 boarding, but also has extra cannons, or how galley is basically schooner, but can row while derelict).
Insane can work with some fine tuning...put the kill a crew at the beginning of each turn first...may work better as an event or UT...imagine picking up the UT Insane being forced to kill your crew, but also get wicked shooting bonuses in the process...
Mortar ship seems like a lot to keep track of...maybe it can only use the ability against docked ships, forts, flotillas, marines, and derelict ships...just suggesting...needs more input to be sure though...maybe make it like the Bombadier...an artillery piece you put on it at the beginning of the game, but it make ths ship slower, but it can fire with extra range...more input needed...
Poorly Crewed is odd...so, how does it work? Does the point reduction take place during the building phase...so you can get more points in ships, but you can't exceed the reduced point cost when placing crew? I suppose if costed right it could work...maybe a Limit, Ransom, 0pt crew would be interesting with this ability.
Saboteur...interesting, but expensive...since it can be used as a cancellor, 5pts minimum...the give an enemy ship an action shoves it more toward 6+...remember "Screaming" Mimi...she was 6 and only moved your ship...imagine if she could also give it a shoot action. it could work...costed right...maybe it has two chits one for your home island that has the actual point cost attached and one to actually put on the enemy ship and doesn't count toward the build...sort of like the canoes...its hard to explain...
Carrack has shades of catamaran again...so, a smaller ship will only score a hit 1/6th of the time...fun...why not just give it the ability of F&S Pestilence? same chance of hitting, but works against more ships.
Savage Barrage is workable, but again just make the negative part more clear; they can't fire on you on your own turn...they'd have to get +1 on their next turn...or just +1 against it all the time (+1 against it all the time is at least -2pts...the second shot action is worth probably around 6pts: based on stuff like Mycron...so about 4pts total if re-worded).
Close Combat...good, workable. I might use it...sort of like Broadsides, but different.
Lethal Barrage seems too similar to Close Combat as it is...maybe Lethal Barrage should have a different ranging...say more like Mirror of Archimedes...you've got to find that "sweet spot" for it to be "lethal"
Courage could be worded better...more like Holy Water..."enemy abilities cannot affect this ship or her crew." probably between 5-10pts...since it nerfs so many abilities...like cancellor, Cursed Captain Jack, Davy Jones 6 roll, "Screaming" Mimi. I would love to be able to actually buy this ability for ships in the game, but again it'd be expensive and that's why I think they made Holy Water a UT so they didn't have to give it a price.
Corrupt Leadership is interesting...a reverse Parley of sorts...the "cannot attack for a number of turns equal to the printed number on the coin" may be too powerful...its in the range of Sleigh power...you know...when you have to celebrate your "present" for a number of turns equal to a d6 roll...yeah...maybe make it 0pts, but make it only 1 turn of can't attack and the coin is random from the attackers home island or the ship that's attacking like Parley is with defense.
Bounty...not crazy about...but I have no real advice except why place a Bounty unless someone is going to collect on it? what does one get for sinking the Bounty ship? do they get anything? no, then why kill it...you'd just hurt yourself if you don't have enough gold...paying gold for increased cannon accuracy may not be worth it if I may have to dump my Mercs. maybe as a UT that can work against an opposing Merc fleet...but as a keyword...not unless someone is getting paid...or just rename it something more appropriate...I don't know what though...
Privateer has potential...the crew basically count as being X faction and can use crew of X faction on their ship. Not sure about changing the faction of the ship...maybe...just needs some better wording...Find Red Skull/Gem of Hades see what it says...just thought of it...its like Black Mark, but with the chosen faction...nicely done...
Treasure Hunter...I don't know...has some potential, but Lucky the Parrot and Devereaux's abilities can do very similar things...Unholy Light is the extreme of this, but I suppose costed reasonably on small treasure gnats it could be fun.
Elite Gunners...in theory it sounds awesome, but you have to keep track of this and there is no real system for the in the game. I'd just stick with abilities like "This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls against ships previously shot at this turn" or "This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls against ships without all of their masts."
Mysterious Inlet...needs another name...there's already a Mysterious Island in SS with that name...maybe just Mysterious Island...haha...um...the ability is ok, but you forgot to say how many d6 you roll to see how many masts the pirates eliminate, it just says roll d6 right now...
Magazine Explosion...sounds interesting...maybe you have to roll lower than the number of masts the scuttled ship had when it began the game...so on a 4-master you have to roll 1-3...5-master 1-4...6-master 1-5...10-master always explodes! then maybe roll for each ship within L...if you roll lower than the number of masts that ship has they lose a mast. anything within S roll again if it succeeds again add a fire mast too...it seems a bit complicated still...hmm...but lots of die rolling!
Powder Monkey is cool, but just a glorified Double Shot...
Lieutenant...umm...how would the Lt. be eliminated in the first place? the enemy can't choose which crew is eliminated except Duel...See Ghost Crew in SM...the ability is 4pts now with crew like Mays in F&S.
Sailors...again...too similar to UTs...Weapons in Rev and Guns in Caribbean. ok, not exactly, but the UTs are clearly better and who would spend more cargo on more "+1 boarding" crew unless they had a whole lot of cargo? needs work...
Fluyt...don't include Secret Hold...just say Secret Hold on the deckplate...keywords within keywords is confusing...I don't want that...plus by seperating them it makes it harder for an opponent to cancel all of your abilities.
Doesn't Discipline already exist as the Black Pearl's ability? "If this ship is assigned a captain crew, she gets +1 to her cannon rolls and +S to her base move." its like 7pts if I remember correctly...the RotF prize version of Griffin also has it asn well as a few other ships that aren't as useful...just saying...ok, its late, and I'm bored out of my mind...
Danish is unusual...I have no point of reference to price it except its more UT like than keyword...also, what prevents me from running over and cancelling the ability and having my fleet sail past that way? could also be a cool event..."Place in the gaming area within S of one of your ships. If an enemy ship sails to within L+L of this event the player that controls that ship must take a gold coin from their home island and place it on your home island." hmm...I like that...do you? my brain WILL overload soon, I promise...
oops...must have pasted too many times...I was trying to make sure I didn't lose my comments...my network was acting funny while I was typing this originally so I copied it so I wouldn't lose it...blah!
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Post by woelf on Jul 30, 2009 12:51:23 GMT -5
I didn't lie when I said that I had a ton of abilities. Will all of them get used? Probably not. But I hope that these spurn some good ideas! Some of these do sounds pretty good, although quite a few would get rather expensive. You're definitely looking at a double-digit cost for this one, and probably much closer to 20 than to 10. The standard "ships within S get +1 to cannons" ability is already somewhere around 8 or 9 points, and not only does this have a greater range, it also has a greater effect. As written, it'll give +1 to cannons, boarding rolls, extra action/SAT rolls, and any other abilities that involve a roll - that's pretty huge. Also, as others have said, it's best to avoid embedding keywords within other keywords. The fact that you're using keywords in the first place means you should have more than enough text space on the card to write both back-to-back, plus it avoids the need to create another, almost-identical keyword later on if you decide you want something to have the ability without that other embedded keyword. Is this meant to be a permanent, cumulative effect? If it is, it could get ugly very quickly, especially on a 10-masted ship. I'd recommend capping it somewhere (+2 max?) and/or giving it a limited duration like "until the end of your next turn". Another option would be something in between where the bonus "decays" by 1 each turn until the cannons return back to normal. That way you could get a huge bonus by picking off several ships at once, but you'd have to keep sinking ships or you'll lose it. I like this one - basically you're bribing the captain to leave you alone for a while. Although, aside from removing the Captain keyword, there might be a better way of wording it. Since it's basically giving the enemy ship Parley anyways, you might as well reference it. Something like this might work: When this ship targets an enemy ship with a shoot action, that ship gains Parley against this ship (only). Instead of picking a treasure randomly, the owner may choose to give you any one non-unique treasure from that ship. Your ship cannot attack that ship for a number of turns equal to the printed value of that treasure.Even for zero points, I'm not seeing how this one would be helpful at all because it gives you a bonus for attacking a ship that you're not going to want to attack. If you sink it ("defeat" is ambiguous by the way - it could be interpreted to simply mean derelict), you either lose gold or ships/crew. A better way to use a keyword like this would be to apply the gold penalty at the end of the game if you haven't sunk the ship. That way you can actually use the cannon bonus, plus the other player will have much more incentive to keep it afloat rather than to try sacrificing it as quickly as possible to deprive you of ships. Excluding other custom-made abilities, I don't see this one being very useful at all because the vast majority of abilities that affect stats ADD to them rather than reduce them. I suppose it would technically work against oarsmen if the ship is derelict, but that's the only one that comes to mind. Is this intended to apply toward the build limit (thus allowing an extra 3 points for every ship you have), or to simply reduce the amount of crew each ship can hold? This would work best on a crew, not a ship: 1) If the -3 applies toward the build limit it would make a really great new 0LR crew, especially for a treasure-running fleet (Spanish or Corsair!). 2) If the -3 doesn't apply toward the build limit, Limit-Ransom would still be highly recommended, but you could give this crew itself a negative point value (-10 sounds reasonable, or give it a scaled cost like -2 per ship in your fleet). If you'd go with this option, I'd also highly recommend adding a line of text to the ability that says the crew cannot be unloaded unless captured, since having a non-zero cost (even negative) negates the usual assignment restriction. You have a lot of redundant text in this one. A better wording would be like this: This ship's base move cannot be decreased unless she is derelict. At the beginning of each of your turns, roll a d6; on a result of 1 this ship cannot move this turn.Also, having that line about not reducing the speed seems to run counter to the concept of the ship being ponderous and slow. It would make more sense to say that the base move couldn't be increased instead.
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Post by woelf on Jul 30, 2009 13:05:23 GMT -5
Discipline: This pretty much combines the "If this ship has a captain crew, then she gets +1 to her cannon rolls" and the helmsman ability. Not sure the cost. As others have said, this ability already exists, so a new keyword really isn't needed unless space gets extremely tight on the cards. Other than the immunity (which effectively requires the addition of TWO new nations, not just one), this keyword really isn't necessary at all because there should be more than enough space on the card to list Secret Hold seperately, and the +2 gold ability isn't particularly long. Fluyt should definitely be a keyword if that ship type would be added, but there is probably a better way to use it. Under the standard rules, if you're required to eliminate a crew you aren't allowed to choose one that cannot be eliminated. That means the crew with this keyword would always be the first to go, and the protection of the other crew would go with it. Aside from being a meat shield there wouldn't be much reason to use a crew with this unless it had some other secondary ability that was highly useful. The +1 to boarding ability by itself typically costs 4 points (2 points in Spanish Main), so the built-in limit isn't necessary - point costs alone should take care of that, because no one is going to spend 8 or 12 points to improve boarding when most won't even spend 4 points for the mere +1. This sounds pretty brutal, and as an event would have to be pricey - enough that it could unseat False Treasure as the most expensive one. It would be great as a UT, though.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Jul 30, 2009 20:08:31 GMT -5
Haha, looks like no one likes my keywords. For unparalleled leadership- Yeah, doesn't have to be a keyword. I suppose that I could make it, "The first shot that target ship fires eliminates 2 masts if it hits." For Expert Gunners- I meant for it to be cumulative, however of course that now seems like a bad idea. I like the idea that it dissipates after several turns. For Bounty- True, your change makes sense so I'll do that. Courage- A lot of pieces in my sets reduced statistics. Not too potent in the actual game though, I agree. Poorly Crewed Ships- I only used this ability for a Spanish crew to be honest, it wasn't that well thought out. I'll change it. Ponderous- I agree, it's too wordy. Unfortunately I unintentionally make everything wordy, yours makes more sense. @assertions of my ship abilities being like catamarans- I made these a bit before catamarans. Now, they're for ships that aren't catamarans that can get these abilities. Upstart was just a little extra speed boost. Swift should have only been -1 to enemy cannon rolls. I will admit that a lot of my abilities aren't perhaps the most simplistic. But I guess that's just the way I like them. However in order for them to be playable I will change a good amount of them.
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