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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 11, 2009 17:29:43 GMT -5
What would a commodore be? A captain, and some other ability?
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Post by lord_denton on Aug 11, 2009 17:33:58 GMT -5
I think a Commodore should have something to do with it being a temporary postition. So, maybe each turn, on a roll of a dice, if you roll X he gains the captain keyword (or maybe he gets promoted to Admiral) and looses everything else he had before that.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 11, 2009 17:40:47 GMT -5
Sounds kind of iffy, random stuff like never really seems to get used all that much.
How about this:
Commodore, 5 points (?) Captain. You may eliminate this crew to get an extra action. Afterwards, place a basic Captain on this ship.
I don't know if this should be a keyword, but we should list all generics as basic crew.
So you could have: "This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls against a ship without at least 2 basic crew."
Or "This ship eliminates one crew when she hits against any ship that has a nonbasic captain crew aboard." <- Could be good for Pirates, a sort of assassination if you will.
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danomight
Ordinary Seaman
I'm on a boat!
Posts: 6
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Post by danomight on Aug 11, 2009 18:08:31 GMT -5
Hey guys, here are a few keyword ideas. Please feel free to critique and refine.
Fireship. This ship may replace one of her own masts with a firemast as a free action. If this ship touches any other ship while she has one or more firemasts roll a d6. On the result of 4-6 replace one of the other ship’s masts with a firemast.
Navies would often set one of their own ships alight and sail it into enemy formations. We might alternately consider amending firemast rules to give them a chance to spread to enemy ships. That might balance the firepot specialist / fireshot some. Note that the ability is not limited to ‘once per turn.’
Coaster. This ship may move S if she begins and / or ends a move action within S of an island or reef.
This keyword attempts to reflect the use of flat-bottomed or shallow-drafted trading vessels. I envision them having average to mediocre base speeds since a flat bottom is more of a hindrance on the open ocean. Since there is no “once per turn” stipulation, coasters would get an immediate +S boost from their home island and perhaps another +S boost from clever terrain placement. They should have larger holds, 1-3 masts, poor cannon, and abilities pertaining to gold running.
Privateer. This keyword only applies in nation pure fleets. If this ship sinks or captures an enemy ship, place gold worth half (round down) of the captured ship’s point cost on your home island. This keyword encourages the use of nation pure fleets and gives offensively-minded players another option to win non-deathmatch games. Privateers should be fast, heavily armed, and very expensive.
En Flute. This ship does not have any cannon and may not initiate a shoot action unless crewed with a marine or musketeer. She gains a number of cargo spaces equal to the number of her masts. If none of these extra spaces are filled she gets +S to her base speed.
En Flute ships would be on the larger side (think gutted warships) and very inexpensive. They could give nations not already endowed with small treasure runners some viable options for getting gold back to their HI’s.
Bomb Ketch. Ships and terrain do not block this ship’s line of fire. This ship eliminates two masts with one hit and may hit enemies at S+S range on a cannon roll of 5 or 6. This ship may not be given a move action and a shoot action on the same turn.
Bomb ketches were generally outfitted with huge mortars that could cause massive damage but had to be ‘ranged in.’ This lengthy and exacting process accounts for the ketch not being able to move and shoot on the same turn. Ketches should not have more than three masts and should always be equipped with L-range cannon with high accuracies. They should have slow base speeds and low cargo room.
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Post by admiralb on Aug 11, 2009 20:13:17 GMT -5
the En Flute ability we've actually used in our campaign games to represent cargo hauling ships...usually Spanish...we pick ships with big cargo holds and then say they have no cannons, but get additional cargo equal to the number of cannons it would have had...so Buscador ended up with 10 cargo, Santa Isable 10, Concepcion 9...we had a LOT of gold floating around that day.
Coaster looks kind of cool...they'd have to have fairly poor base move to make them balanced...has potential, not entirely sure about the multiple uses a turn, but could work if worded correctly...maybe Woelf should check it out.
maybe the Fire Ship needs to ram to replace an enemy mast with a fire mast?...it'd probably be more balanced that way...like "When this ship succeeds at a ram roll, the enemy ship replaces one of her masts with a fire mast instead of removing it." not sure its perfectly worded, but you get the idea...or maybe if it wins a boarding party? we need more input.
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Post by Commodore Vendari on Aug 12, 2009 18:48:58 GMT -5
I've been working on a keyword of my own. There are two variants, so here they are:
Privateer - This ship is considered to fly the Pirate flag in addition to her nation's flag.
OR
(For Pirates ships only) Privateer: X - This ship is considered to fly the flag of the nationality marked by X in addition to the Pirate flag.
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Post by cannonfury on Aug 12, 2009 19:23:19 GMT -5
i like that idea better captainvendari, no offense danomight, but that keyword captures the privateer more accurately
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Post by admiralb on Aug 12, 2009 19:56:59 GMT -5
I think I like captainvendari's Privateer: X better...since it entails also using crew from X nation in addition to whatever it normally can use. its interesting and easy to understand...plus, who doesn't want a new version of Barstow with Privateer: England, Privateer: France and whatevere regular ability he gets...that'd be interesting and oddly historically flavored...too bad Barstow is a fictional character...haha...
anyway, I think danomight's Privateer would work better as a "Bounty Hunter" keyword...although maybe not require the nation pure, plus maybe all/some Bounty Hunters also have Ex-patriot...maybe? I'm not entirely sure...for a small game, sinking/capturing big ships can net some serious gold...
I came up with an ability once that said something to the affect: "Once per turn, when this ship eliminates an enemy crew, you may take gold from outside the game equal to the point cost of the crew that was eliminated and place it on your home island." may not be worded entirely correctly, but I think the idea comes across...you kill an enemy crew you get rewarded...and its once per turn, so you're not going to make a ton of it wthout multiple ships running around with the ability...and unless you're using a "kill all the enemy crew" it'll rarely be very much anyway..."I win the boarding party! You lose a crew since you have no treasure to steal." Who gets killed first, Davy Jones or the Helmsman? plus, there are so many ways of negating death: doctors, "Ghost Crew," Wraith, Devil's Maw, El Fantasma (ok, only him, but when killing a crew might end in victory for the enemy, you choose to kill the guy that doesn't stay dead)...
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Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 12, 2009 20:02:23 GMT -5
That actually sounds too powerful if it doesn't cost a lot of points!
Sigh, and here I was thinking of making a crew ability that said, "Once per turn, when this ship eliminates a crew or cargo from an enemy ship, eliminate another one."
Now those 2 together would be ridiculous, haha
"Sweet! Not only did I kill your Captain, but your OE Davy Jones! Good game, noob!"
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Post by admiralb on Aug 12, 2009 21:03:52 GMT -5
ha! that would be a crazy combo! although since mine was 'once per turn' and 'a crew' you only get gold from one of them...but hey, done correctly, you could win fairly easily in a 1-on-1 match, that's why I never actually put my ability into one of my sets, the ability had too much potential for cheesiness...and don't we already have enough of that with super-speed fleets, Hidden Conves and other first turn island jumping and Jack Sparrow?
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Post by Commodore Vendari on Aug 13, 2009 15:30:17 GMT -5
That actually sounds too powerful if it doesn't cost a lot of points! Sigh, and here I was thinking of making a crew ability that said, "Once per turn, when this ship eliminates a crew or cargo from an enemy ship, eliminate another one." Now those 2 together would be ridiculous, haha "Sweet! Not only did I kill your Captain, but your OE Davy Jones! Good game, noob!" The problem with winning a boarding is even though you get to choose to take a treasure or kill a crew, what the loser actually loses (under the respective category) is their choice. So, the only way that could work is if they are the only crew on the ship.
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Post by cannonfury on Aug 13, 2009 16:14:09 GMT -5
until boarding becomes consistent and less of a gamble, then i will consider keywords that are only in effect when you win a boarding party, so we should focus on making boarding more productive
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Post by woelf on Aug 13, 2009 16:48:27 GMT -5
That actually sounds too powerful if it doesn't cost a lot of points! Sigh, and here I was thinking of making a crew ability that said, "Once per turn, when this ship eliminates a crew or cargo from an enemy ship, eliminate another one." Now those 2 together would be ridiculous, haha "Sweet! Not only did I kill your Captain, but your OE Davy Jones! Good game, noob!" The problem with winning a boarding is even though you get to choose to take a treasure or kill a crew, what the loser actually loses (under the respective category) is their choice. So, the only way that could work is if they are the only crew on the ship. If you have an ability that does something above and beyond the usual boarding effect (such as kill all crew, steal all treasure, capture a crew, etc.) it overrides the defender's choice so they can't avoid it by choosing the other option. Regardless, an ability that instantly turns eliminated crew into gold is way too powerful, even with the "once per turn" restriction and a very high (double-digit) point cost. With a couple different sources of the ability in your fleet (and/or copiers) you could play ultra-aggressive and completely ignore the treasure race. You wouldn't even need to kill enough crew to hit the "more than half" point because you could end the game much sooner by wiping out their entire fleet as quickly and brutally as possible. Some possible different ways to make it not broken and/or to bring the cost down:1) Have it pay out at a flat rate instead of variable based on the target's point value, almost like a reverse-Ransom. 4 or 5 points would seem fairly reasonable as a ability that once per turn gave you 1 gold for an eliminated crew - it would be a nice way to supplement your income while directly harming your opponent, but even with several in your fleet it wouldn't be enough that you could ignore treasure-running entirely. If it paid out at 2 gold per crew you'd have to push it up to at least 8 points. 2) Keep it as-is (once per turn, face value for crew), but pair it up with the Limit keyword to put it in the same crew class as Emperor Blackheart or (either) Davy Jones. That would probably work around 12-ish points, because having Limit would prevent you from gaining the extra 5 points from a 0LR crew and you wouldn't be able double-up on the ability with a copier either. 3) Cap it around 2 or 3 per crew (once per turn), but put the gold on the ship with the ability instead of sending it straight home. That way it won't be worth anything to you until you unload it, the enemy will have a chance to get it back, and an ultra-agressive ship will be be limited by its free cargo space, which in most cases isn't much. This would probably be the most playable (I'd estimate around 8-9 points), but would be too similar to the existing capture ability.
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danomight
Ordinary Seaman
I'm on a boat!
Posts: 6
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Post by danomight on Aug 13, 2009 16:48:37 GMT -5
until boarding becomes consistent and less of a gamble, then i will consider keywords that are only in effect when you win a boarding party, so we should focus on making boarding more productive I agree that boarding seriously needs more incentive. If there were abilities that gave a player the possibility of taking over the other ship that might work (say on a roll of 5 or 6?) This is a crew that I designed a while back that speaks to Pirate democratic tendencies to vote new captains in to power. Captain Robert Culliford Crew, Pirate, 6 Points Hostile: England, France, Spain. Captain. Once per turn, if this ship wins a boarding party against an enemy pirate ship, said ship and all crew aboard become part of your fleet.
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Post by woelf on Aug 13, 2009 17:13:15 GMT -5
Captain Robert Culliford Crew, Pirate, 6 Points Hostile: England, France, Spain. Captain. Once per turn, if this ship wins a boarding party against an enemy pirate ship, said ship and all crew aboard become part of your fleet. Only 6 points? Yikes! Put him on the Zeus or even a 5-master along with Genny's Red Rampage and an extra action crew, and you could pick off a ship almost every turn. Even if your opponent isn't playing any "big" Pirate ships, just grabbing a runner or two like Banshee's Cry would be more than enough to pay for his costs several times over. Make him at least 12, with Limit, and it might work. Even then, instant ship captures go into *very* dangerous territory when it comes to game balance. Many people already consider the Harbinger ability overpowered, and that requires you to first derelict the ship, then spend an entire action to explore it, and then on top of that it sends your gunship all the way back home. As written, Culliford's ability would allow you to grab a ship that was relatively undamaged and immediately put it back in the action right alongside your main gunship.
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