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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 2, 2009 16:41:32 GMT -5
Okay so to make things easier on people I've made a thread with my best ideas. Anyway: 5. I honestly feel that CC Mike's "Random crew generator" should become part of the game, except with more abilities and without the randomness and limits. For reference: www.cke1st.com/Games/RandomCrewGen.htmI am one of those people who in games loves to pack up a ship with a bunch of crew and dislike just putting on a captain and helmsman. 4. An ability where you can pay points at the beginning of the game to get other abilities but at an additional cost. For example: Xenophobic Xavier, 0 points, America Fanatically Loyal: America, Captain. You may place this crew faceup during setup. If you do, you may choose to subtract 5 points from your build total to give this crew this ability: +1 to your cannon rolls against any Non-American ship or fort. So he's a 0 point captain. If you had a normal world hater captain, that'd be 7 points. But if you have 40 points, then technically with his ability you only have 35 points. Or you could do this: Long John Silver, 2 points, Pirate Explorer. You may place this crew face up during setup. If you do, you may subtract any amount of points from your fleet. Then, place a gold coin worth X on your home island, where X is the amount of points you paid divided by 4, rounded down. So you can ax your fleet to give you a serious head start in gold. However, a single home island raider can ruin your day! 3. I really, really like the idea of counters on ships and crew. For example you can do this: Redbeard the Ruthless, 5 points Abilities:This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls. Once per turn, roll a d6. On a 5 or 6 this ship may be given the same action twice. At the beginning of this game, place 2 cruelty counters on this ship. At the beginning of your turn, remove a cruelty counter from this ship. If you can't, eliminate this crew. You may eliminate one of this ship's crew to place a cruelty counter on this ship. So if you don't keep eliminating crew, then this crew is eliminated. Then there are accuracy counters which can give a +1 to cannon rolls, or fear counters which could give a ship -1 to its cannon rolls, or a diplomacy counter which can cancel stuff. In all, there are an infinite amount of ideas you could have with this. HMS Fish and Chips, 19 points Masts: 5 Cargo: 5 Speed: L Cannons: 2S 2L 2L 2L 2S Abilities: This ship has an accuracy counter. As long as this ship has an accuracy counter on it, this ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls. At the beginning of this ship's move action, you may place this ship's accuracy counter on a friendly ship within 2L, it gains this ability and this ship loses these abilities. So it has all rank 1 cannons, but if the ship is about to die or another ship is getting into combat first, you place the accuracy counter on another ship. 2. Make Move-Shoot-Move legal. Woelf can help with wording I think. 1. Now this isn't as much of an idea as it is really just a suggestion. I think that there should be more ships and crew with abilities that aren't so obvious in their use. They should be useful, but when you figure out something it should be better. Look at El Neptuno and you'll know what I mean. Most people used to (and I think still) think that it stunk. Terribly. But to me it's one of my most useful ships, and it's actually one of my favorite. It's not as bad when it is firing L+L cannons that hit on a 4+! ;D However there should still be some straightforward stuff. Like for Britain, and to a lesser extent America, as those nations have always been straightforward and I don't think that this type of stuff suits their background. These are all in my humble opinion of course. |
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Post by Commodore Vendari on Sept 3, 2009 8:24:12 GMT -5
I am one of those people who in games loves to pack up a ship with a bunch of crew and dislike just putting on a captain and helmsman I have a good use for 3 points if I ever play against you. I like the counter idea. It could work very well. And different crew will allow certain counters, yes? Possibly an Event? |
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 3, 2009 11:20:32 GMT -5
I assume that you're referring to a crew-killer?  Thank you, in playtesting it works very well (just place the counters on the ship's deckplate), and different crew will allow different counters. For the moment I just use different coins (like pennies and dimes) but when a ship has an accuracy counter, a fear counter, and a diplomacy counter on it all at the same time, I recommend knowing which is which. |
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Post by woelf on Sept 3, 2009 11:31:57 GMT -5
4. An ability where you can pay points at the beginning of the game to get other abilities but at an additional cost. For example: Xenophobic Xavier, 0 points, America Fanatically Loyal: America, Captain. You may place this crew faceup during setup. If you do, you may choose to subtract 5 points from your build total to give this crew this ability: +1 to your cannon rolls against any Non-American ship or fort. So he's a 0 point captain. If you had a normal world hater captain, that'd be 7 points. But if you have 40 points, then technically with his ability you only have 35 points. The idea is interesting, but I'd recommend keeping the base cost of any variable-point crew near what they should be if they had only their permanent abilities. Otherwise, you may find players will use them just for their free/cheap basic abilities without even bothering with the added cost of extra abilities. The placement restrictions for zero-point crew aren't going to matter much if the crew's abilities are already limiting where he can go. (I think I've asked before, but don't recall what you said - is "Fanatically Loyal: X" the same as "Hostile: Non-X", or is there something extra built into it?) Another interesting idea, but I'm not sure how useful it would be in an actual game. Considering how much of a stink people can make about the five poitns from a 0LR+5 crew or even differentials of one or two points between equivalent ships or crew from two different nationalities, I don't think that players are going to be willing to give up points for gold at a 4:1 exchange rate. To get a mere 2 gold you'd have to give up 8 point, which is more than enough to buy a pair of crew with the +2 gold ability or even an entire extra ship, either of which are going to be worth a lot more than 2 gold over the course of a game. Lowering the exchange rate to 3:1 would make it a little better, but even then you'd have to give up 9 points of your fleet just to be able to build a fort immediately. 2:1 would be completely game-breaking if you use the "more than half" rule, because a player would simply have to forego 32 points of their fleet for an instant win with 16 gold. This idea might work better as a one-time shot at a fixed rate. Perhaps make him a 10-point crew that gives you an instant 5 gold at the start of the game, but then throw on the restriction that if he's removed from the ship the gold goes away. If you switched him to one of the non-Pirate nations, flavor-wise you could make him some sort of high-ranking noble (Prince, etc.) or a celebrity of some sort that is effectively useless at sea, but is still worth big bucks if you manage to bring him back home alive. Something like this, perhaps: Prince Freduardo 10 points When you place this crew during setup, also place a coin from your collection worth 5 gold on your home island. If this crew is removed from this ship, also remove five gold from your home island (or forts). When the game ends, if this crew has not been eliminated, removed, captured, or sunk, you recieve an additional 4 gold.Basically, he's just dead weight on one of your ships, but he'll *almost* pay for himself if you can keep him alive. As another option, if you gave him the Limit-Ransom combo you could get away with dropping him down to 5 points. I like this idea too, although he might be a little too susceptible to things like Mermaids or Becalmed. You could get jammed up on the first or second turn and be forced to burn through a bunch of other crew just to keep this guy alive, without ever getting any benefit from it. Maybe instead of removing the counter at the beginning of your turn, remove it at the end of your turn only if the ship has been given at least one action during that turn. That way, if the ship does happen to get stuck sitting idle you don't have to keep paying to maintain him. I'd recommend bumping up the base rank of this ship's cannons to make it less of an "automatic" to immediately hand off the counter to some other ship (you can then reduce the overall cost to match). If the ship had (printed) rank-4 cannons, giving away an accuracy counter to make some other ship better is going to be a much more difficult decision than if it has rank-2 or even rank-3 cannons. Going from from rank-1 (effectively) to rank-2 hardly matters at all to a gunship - it just takes the ship from "awesome" to "really good". On the other hand, going from 3 to 4 is right on that cutoff point where it goes from "good" to "not so good". Changing this could open a can of worms, so it would definitely take some extra considerations. Although, one initial thought on making it legal would be to apply the two-action limit by counting the combo as if it used up both actions for the turn. That way it could be a powerful combo and would make the ships and crew with the reverse-captain ability much more useful, but it would also be much more difficult to "break" it because you wouldn't be able to chain it with an extra action or SAT ability. I completely agree. Believe it or not, Rollando's UT-grabber is one of my favorite abilities in the entire game, and not just because so many people think it's useless. It's not particularly useful in a standard game with only two or three "instant effect" UTs present, but it's remarkably fun if you're using a whole bunch and/or if you specifically pick some you'll want to steal. For example, try him out with Relics sometime... |
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 3, 2009 13:02:41 GMT -5
Very true. I'm just showcasing a "what could be" so I haven't really given too much thought into the actual crew.
Fanatically Loyal:X means that you are Loyal to X and Hostile Non-X. Also, the crew can't leave the ship unless captured or eliminate.
About Long John Silver- Very true. I think that 3:1 makes more sense, but I am also like the Prince Freduardo. Very Spanish. ; )
For Redbeard-
Or perhaps it could be, "When this ship takes her first action of the turn, eliminate a cruelty counter".
For HMS Fish and Chips-
Again this is a exhibition. I would actually have given it 4S 3L 3L 3L 4S and lowered its point cost, probably so it is still okay but not exemplary without the counter, but is better but not perfect with it.
For making move shoot move legal, that's actually what I was thinking, of making it take up both actions. I mean, it's still really powerful, but it is still 9 points.
I haven't used Rollando too much only because I haven't gotten to play in a while, but the next time I play I will try and use him in a fleet.
Probably all UT game or something, haha.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 3, 2009 13:12:44 GMT -5
Prince Frederick 5 points Limit, Ransom, When you place this crew during setup, also place a coin from your collection worth 5 gold on your home island. If this crew is removed from this ship, also remove five gold from your home island (or forts). When the game ends, if this crew has not been eliminated, removed, captured, or sunk, you recieve an additional 4 gold. WANT!  Make him British. Redbeard: to shorten his text use the "Born Leader" Keyword. It does the same thing as his second ability. |
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 3, 2009 13:17:31 GMT -5
Oh yeah, totally forgot that keyword.
To be honest it's really more of a Spanish crew, the British shouldn't get such good crew that give gold. In my not so humble opinion of course.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 3, 2009 13:20:37 GMT -5
Yeah, the ability makes sense as either Spanish, English, or French really. Spanish is perhaps the best as it does "free gold" more than any other faction.
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Post by admiralb on Sept 3, 2009 15:00:33 GMT -5
I can see France though too...with crew like Jules de Cissey, Angelique Richelieu, maybe even Lenoir...maybe even an American one...some kind of rich dignitary or something (a Ben Franklin like guy, but not Franklin himself)...but yes, Spain would be the most "flavorful" way to go...The Mask in his later years...
what about something like:
"When this ship unloads gold, you may remove this crew from the game to give that coin +4 gold."
Might not be as hazardous as the other ability, but really what is stopping me from just leaving this "dead weight" crew at my HI on board a ship with Mycron or some other fleet action type and never moving him around? It happens all the time with the Hag of Tortuga around here...she'll sit on the Jolly Mon at the HI and never move...just get that player extra points...hmm...maybe:
"When this ship explores a wild island you may remove this crew from the game to place any one coin with a gold value from this island onto you home island; that coin is worth +2 gold."
...or something like that, the bonus could be as high or low as you deem needed. only real bad side here is used in combo with Jack Sparrow you could win the game quite fast...especially if you can manage to get more than one crew with that ability in your fleet (unlikely to happen since they'd probably be unique and the other crew you'd haev to go through to use one of another nation would probably not be worth it). although, its really only slightly more powerful than some MIs...
the rest seem pretty good...although I do agree with Woelf about Redbeard...I don't want to end up having to pay for him if I've been Mermaided or just letting him sit around a turn or two...on a sidenote: Redbeard the Ruthless made me think of the Mythbusters Pirate specials...Adam = Redbeard the Savage...haha!
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Post by woelf on Sept 3, 2009 17:47:53 GMT -5
Might not be as hazardous as the other ability, but really what is stopping me from just leaving this "dead weight" crew at my HI on board a ship with Mycron or some other fleet action type and never moving him around? It happens all the time with the Hag of Tortuga around here...she'll sit on the Jolly Mon at the HI and never move...just get that player extra points...hmm... Keeping him as a 10-point crew (instead of a 5-point LR) would help alleviate that issue somewhat, especially since Spain lacks a zero-point reducer. 20 points (after you factor in the ship to carry him) is an awful lot to leave sitting idle at your home island. In a standard game you'd be essentially playing with half a fleet, which is unlikely to be enough even with the initial 5-gold (possibly 9) boost. A crew like that would be much better suited to riding along on a big treasure-runner like La Joya or Buscador, where he's in the action but not (usually) in extreme danger. Regardlesss, it would be a good idea to reword it slightly to say "When you place this crew on a ship of the same nationality during setup..." |
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 3, 2009 19:43:31 GMT -5
I agree with Woelf, 10 points is pretty good.
This is a bit off-topic, but Woelf, how has the Buscador fared for you? I just recently got one (and with no directions it was a pain to put together) and haven't used it yet. I normally use La Joya de Sol, El San Francisco, or El San Jose for my runners (I have a La Monarca and a La Santa Isabel but they are pretty overpowered with Dominic Freda). The speed and masts of it just put me off of it, at least La Joya de Sol can move pretty fast and with large cargo.
I haven't heard anything about my #5 idea, of making custom crew part of the game.
In that vein I will add that for custom crew, you should roll a d6 at setup, and for each ability, add 1 to the roll. On a 6 reduce one point from that crew. For the Cursed and Vikings, reduce 1 point on a 5 and 2 points on a 6.
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Post by woelf on Sept 3, 2009 20:45:13 GMT -5
This is a bit off-topic, but Woelf, how has the Buscador fared for you? I just recently got one (and with no directions it was a pain to put together) and haven't used it yet. I normally use La Joya de Sol, El San Francisco, or El San Jose for my runners (I have a La Monarca and a La Santa Isabel but they are pretty overpowered with Dominic Freda). The speed and masts of it just put me off of it, at least La Joya de Sol can move pretty fast and with large cargo. I honestly haven't used it much, but that's mostly due to not really getting to play the game at all in the past several months. I did use it (via proxy) a few times in playtest games, and it did combo extremely well with the canoes. You can start the canoes at the closest island, send Buscador there using Hidden Cove (or with Castro's SAT and a trade current), and then load them up to head home on your very first turn. It also works well if you set up a "relay" system, with Buscador moving from island to island while loading up other (much faster) ships to take the goods home. I'm fairly indifferent to having randomized crew. I could see it being useful for someone with a small collection or as something to play around with in between games, but it's not something I'd want to use while building a fleet for an actual game. If you were forced to take whatever you rolled you could easily get stuck with something you didn't need and/or get a combo that really doesn't work together. If you're not forced to take it or can keep rerolling until you get one you like, it defeats the whole purpose of rolling in the first place - it'd be easier to just pick & choose whatever you want from the list directly instead of rolling. |
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 3, 2009 21:07:03 GMT -5
Well I wanted to remove the Random part of the crew creator and make it so that you could choose what you want. I said that above, about wanting to remove the random factor.
I'm curious about why you're not really a fan of the custom crew creator. Sure I guess that you could abuse it but it would be pretty tough, seeing as you're using pre-made abilities. I think that it could make for some very interesting crew.
Could also make it so that you have custom crew as a 0-1 choice in a fleet. A fleet full of custom crew would be ridiculously powerful, but just 1 makes it so that you can choose to have a sort of "personality" character.
Another interesting angle would be to have some faction-specific abilities. For example, only France could get one of those super-reroller abilities, and only the Cursed could get Fear, and so on and so forth.
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Post by admiralb on Sept 3, 2009 21:17:56 GMT -5
I think a random crew generation might be interesting, but more of an event or UT...a bit like Castaway, but you need to roll to see what crew...so maybe Abandon Crew-ish...
hmm...or maybe some kind of Limit or Ransom thing that allows ALL players to roll during setup and they each get a free crew that has the point cost of the roll...
or an event like that maybe...something weird...although the UT idea is sounding better...
maybe when a ship finds the UT, you roll and all your crew with a point cost equal to the die roll are replaced with crew from outside the game with the same point cost as long as they aren't the same crew...something weird...Mirage Crew or something odd...
although an event could be interesting too...at the beginning of each players turn they roll a die and then all of their crew with a point cost equal to the result have their ability changed to something else...maybe Fear...something strange...or maybe they all become like the "Eye of Insanity" in a way...they get to choose any other crew in play and use that crew's ability instead of their own...too many weird things...
Hoists...Buscador hasn't been played much around here...although the one time I can remember it being played it did survive the game...I think we played Intermediaro with it...very unusual...the hoisted that gold unto a waiting ship closer to his HI...very odd...Frontier gets played quite a bit more here...not sure why exactly...probably the one more cargo and better guns...but its been sunk a time or two...Maui's Fishhook though has had the most unusual stuff done with it...Brother Virgil and Jack Sparrow...Jack traded gold home for a crew then hoisted the rest onto waiting canoes and made a run for the next island by killing a crew using Mercer...very odd, but fast way of moving treasure around.
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Post by Commodore Vendari on Sept 4, 2009 8:22:40 GMT -5
I assume that you're referring to a crew-killer? Thank you, in playtesting it works very well (just place the counters on the ship's deckplate), and different crew will allow different counters. For the moment I just use different coins (like pennies and dimes) but when a ship has an accuracy counter, a fear counter, and a diplomacy counter on it all at the same time, I recommend knowing which is which. Oh, no, no, no. Mermaids.  Huh, I might have to try it some time then. |
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Make him British.
