Post by woelf on Aug 14, 2009 15:35:32 GMT -5
Plenty of numbers have been thrown around about how much a styrene set would cost. The estimates have varied quite a bit, but in almost every case they seem to have been viewing it only in terms of the cost of the styrene itself and printing, or they have been based directly on what it would cost to buy a comparable amount of WK-produced cards.
However, since no one here has access to the original equipment that WK used to produce the cards, this set is effectively doing everything from scratch and there are going to be a lot of other "hidden" costs that need to be factored in.
This thread can be a place to list those extra costs, so everyone can get a much better idea of how much it will really cost to produce. Feel free to add anything you can think of, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem, because it can all add up.
Many of these costs are interrelated, but I'll try to split them up as much as possible.
Materials
-Styrene sheets - This value is known, or at least can be determined once we know how much is needed. It should be directly proportional to size and thickness of the individual sheets. Depending on the source there will likely be "standard" sizes to work around, and bulk rates may be available.
-Label Sheets - (If styrene proves to be too expensive) This value can also be determined. Standardized sizes and bulk rates may be available.
Physical Production
-Punch Dies - Unless someone manages to get their hands on the dies used by WK (unlikely), these will have to be created. Cost can vary greatly depending on the material used, the size (a few cards at a time vs entire sheets), complexity, and precision.
-Laser-Cutting Drawings/Programs - If laser cutting proves to be less expensive than die cutting, drawings or programs will need to be created by someone. Newer systems may be compatible with files generated through programs like AutoCAD, Pro-E, Solidworks,etc., but older systems might have their own native format.
-Prototypes! - Before mass producing the sets, test sheets need to run and adjustments need to be made. This is NOT OPTIONAL. People will be extremely ticked if they put down a bunch of money on the set and can't build half of their ships because they don't fit right and/or fall apart too easily.
-Retooling - Based on the prototypes, the dies will need to be retooled or the laser-cutting program will need to be adjusted.
-More Prototypes and More Retooling - repeat until it's right
-Cleaning and Finishing - The raw cards need to be cleaned and polished so they can be printed (or labels can be attached). Rough and/or sharp edges need to be deburred and smoothed so people don't injure themselves every time they touch the cards. Styrene splinters and sliced-open fingers are not cool.
-Labor - Someone needs to make the dies, run the machines, and do the cleanup/finishing. In the end, this will most likely cost more than all other physical production costs combined.
Printing
-Ink - This would likely be included in the overall printing cost, but could be an up-charge depending on where and how it is performed. This may be calculated seperately based on area covered (square feet/inches/meters/etc.)
-Even More Prototypes - Depending on the setup and companies used, it may or may not be more efficient to print before cutting. Regardless of the timing, test runs and prototypes need to be made. We all know how annoying it is to find mis-cut or mis-printed ships, so test runs are essential.
-Labor - Much like with the cutting, someone needs to load and run the printers.
Transportation
-The materials will need to be transported to and from the cutter and printer. Unless a place is found that can do both, expect to do a lot of running back and forth until the prototypes are finalized and mass production can begin. Also, whoever ends up doing most of the running, don't assume you'll be able to move the entire print run in the trunk/backseat of your car with one trip.
-After production, they'll have to be transported to where they will be sorted, and then once again to the post office or shipping company.
Shipping/Distribution
-Collation - Someone needs to actually sort the cards to make sure everyone gets what they ordered.
-Packaging - After collation, they need to packed for shipping. Bubble Mailers and envelopes won't cut it.
-Postage - This will vary greatly depending on destination. Domestically at least, USPS Flat Rate boxes may be a good option. Overseas shipping will obviously cost more.
-Labor - This could be one of the "free" aspects, but someone is going to have to put in a lot of time to make it happen.
Quality Control
-Cut Quality - Even if the prototypes were tweaked to near perfection, don't assume the final product will be perfect too. Sometimes issues can creep up during mass production that you'll never see in the shorter test runs. Take frequent random samples and assemble them to make sure they're still correct.
-Print Quality - The artwork and text needs to be checked to make sure everything lines up where it should. Also, the ink itself needs to be checked for flaking, peeling, and scratching. We don't want a repeat of the DJC issues.
-Collation - The cards need to be checked and rechecked to make sure everyone gets what they're supposed to get.
-Mistakes - Even after the prototypes are completed and mass production has begun, expect something to go wrong. The printer or cutter might screw something up, parts might get lost during collation, shipments could get lost/damage in the mail, or any number of other things could go wrong, any of which could require additional production runs.
-Labor - Much of this QC work could be performed "free" by whoever is in direct contact with the cutters and printers, but those places may also have their own QC systems already in place.
Even after you take out all of the "free" things above, there are still a lot of dollar $$ signs floating up there. This is just a partial list too, because I know there are other things that I've forgotten.
Language, Woelf, language.
However, since no one here has access to the original equipment that WK used to produce the cards, this set is effectively doing everything from scratch and there are going to be a lot of other "hidden" costs that need to be factored in.
This thread can be a place to list those extra costs, so everyone can get a much better idea of how much it will really cost to produce. Feel free to add anything you can think of, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem, because it can all add up.
Many of these costs are interrelated, but I'll try to split them up as much as possible.
Materials
-Styrene sheets - This value is known, or at least can be determined once we know how much is needed. It should be directly proportional to size and thickness of the individual sheets. Depending on the source there will likely be "standard" sizes to work around, and bulk rates may be available.
-Label Sheets - (If styrene proves to be too expensive) This value can also be determined. Standardized sizes and bulk rates may be available.
Physical Production
-Punch Dies - Unless someone manages to get their hands on the dies used by WK (unlikely), these will have to be created. Cost can vary greatly depending on the material used, the size (a few cards at a time vs entire sheets), complexity, and precision.
-Laser-Cutting Drawings/Programs - If laser cutting proves to be less expensive than die cutting, drawings or programs will need to be created by someone. Newer systems may be compatible with files generated through programs like AutoCAD, Pro-E, Solidworks,etc., but older systems might have their own native format.
-Prototypes! - Before mass producing the sets, test sheets need to run and adjustments need to be made. This is NOT OPTIONAL. People will be extremely ticked if they put down a bunch of money on the set and can't build half of their ships because they don't fit right and/or fall apart too easily.
-Retooling - Based on the prototypes, the dies will need to be retooled or the laser-cutting program will need to be adjusted.
-More Prototypes and More Retooling - repeat until it's right
-Cleaning and Finishing - The raw cards need to be cleaned and polished so they can be printed (or labels can be attached). Rough and/or sharp edges need to be deburred and smoothed so people don't injure themselves every time they touch the cards. Styrene splinters and sliced-open fingers are not cool.
-Labor - Someone needs to make the dies, run the machines, and do the cleanup/finishing. In the end, this will most likely cost more than all other physical production costs combined.
Printing
-Ink - This would likely be included in the overall printing cost, but could be an up-charge depending on where and how it is performed. This may be calculated seperately based on area covered (square feet/inches/meters/etc.)
-Even More Prototypes - Depending on the setup and companies used, it may or may not be more efficient to print before cutting. Regardless of the timing, test runs and prototypes need to be made. We all know how annoying it is to find mis-cut or mis-printed ships, so test runs are essential.
-Labor - Much like with the cutting, someone needs to load and run the printers.
Transportation
-The materials will need to be transported to and from the cutter and printer. Unless a place is found that can do both, expect to do a lot of running back and forth until the prototypes are finalized and mass production can begin. Also, whoever ends up doing most of the running, don't assume you'll be able to move the entire print run in the trunk/backseat of your car with one trip.
-After production, they'll have to be transported to where they will be sorted, and then once again to the post office or shipping company.
Shipping/Distribution
-Collation - Someone needs to actually sort the cards to make sure everyone gets what they ordered.
-Packaging - After collation, they need to packed for shipping. Bubble Mailers and envelopes won't cut it.
-Postage - This will vary greatly depending on destination. Domestically at least, USPS Flat Rate boxes may be a good option. Overseas shipping will obviously cost more.
-Labor - This could be one of the "free" aspects, but someone is going to have to put in a lot of time to make it happen.
Quality Control
-Cut Quality - Even if the prototypes were tweaked to near perfection, don't assume the final product will be perfect too. Sometimes issues can creep up during mass production that you'll never see in the shorter test runs. Take frequent random samples and assemble them to make sure they're still correct.
-Print Quality - The artwork and text needs to be checked to make sure everything lines up where it should. Also, the ink itself needs to be checked for flaking, peeling, and scratching. We don't want a repeat of the DJC issues.
-Collation - The cards need to be checked and rechecked to make sure everyone gets what they're supposed to get.
-Mistakes - Even after the prototypes are completed and mass production has begun, expect something to go wrong. The printer or cutter might screw something up, parts might get lost during collation, shipments could get lost/damage in the mail, or any number of other things could go wrong, any of which could require additional production runs.
-Labor - Much of this QC work could be performed "free" by whoever is in direct contact with the cutters and printers, but those places may also have their own QC systems already in place.
Even after you take out all of the "free" things above, there are still a lot of dollar $$ signs floating up there. This is just a partial list too, because I know there are other things that I've forgotten.
Language, Woelf, language.
That's a big list you got there. So let me pop the big question...how is it going to be paid for?
