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Post by marhawkman on Sept 16, 2009 19:40:50 GMT -5
Yes, but Rothschild is English. Ling Tingfang is Jade Rebellion(and hostile to English). In hindsight I gave her Hostile AND the same cost, I'm thinking she should be 2. Or would that require adding Loyal? Hadding the younger: good point..... what would combining this with cannoneer do? Probably bump up to 3-4 but would that work okay? Hadding the elder: Ah, 5 it is then.
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Post by woelf on Sept 16, 2009 20:09:43 GMT -5
Yes, but Rothschild is English. Ling Tingfang is Jade Rebellion(and hostile to English). In hindsight I gave her Hostile AND the same cost, I'm thinking she should be 2. Or would that require adding Loyal? The fact that Rothschild is English is why you shouldn't give her Hostile: English - it's meaningless to prevent them from using an ability combo they already have. While I can understand the desire to bring down the costs of crew, the Hostile/Loyal combo (or negative abilities in general) shouldn't be given arbitrarily to every single new thing that people create just for the sole purpose of making them cheaper. When a negative ability appears, it should be meaningful enough that someone building their fleet will have to carefully weigh the benefit of the lower cost against the detriments of that ability. If it's a meaningless ability*, there's no real reason to avoid using it. *A perfect example of a meaningless ability: "This ship cannot shoot when it carries treasure" on a ship with a single rank-5 cannon. Banshee's Cry, I'm looking at you.Although putting Hostile: English on a crew that's an exact duplicate of an existing English crew isn't quite that extreme, it's still not that far off. It would be better to remove Hostile/Loyal from this crew entirely and leave her at three points. I'm much rather see the H/L combo reserved for the truly unique abilities that appear only on one or two crew and would be highly useful to other nations - especially the ones called out by Hostile. ADDED: I mean this in general, for anyone that is creating new ships and crew - I'm not trying to pick on you or this crew specifically.Four points with that combo would be good, although keep in mind that the Cannoneer and Firepot abilities really don't work together that well. The Cannoneer ability gives you a second shot if you miss, but it's not a reroll, so if you miss with the firepot (a "once per turn" ability) you can't use it on the second shot.
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Post by admiralb on Sept 17, 2009 0:00:48 GMT -5
you know, maybe this new guy that has firepot should be have a second ability that interacts with equipment...like "If a 'shot' equipment on this ship is about to be removed from the game, you may remove gold from your home island equal to that equipment's point cost to prevent that." not sure about the cost of that ability, but the gold removal probably drops it down a bit...I could see a crew like this running around on a Bombadier having a merry old time torching hapless victims...we really don't get enough of that...although last time anyone tried the Draconum ended up on fire and then captured...so, that put a damper on the psychotic pyrotechnics for a while...I may have to bring that crazy back soon...hmm...
anyway, if the flavor really calls for Hostile then I'm for it, but yes I agree with Woelf that it shouldn't be put on crew that basically duplicates of other crew just with different nationality...I'm a bit surprised that F&S Victor de Alva didn't get a Hostile because he is so unique...or even Mycron...he was the first with the ability and a Hostile: France was very much spelled out in his flavor and story...
note: Hostile seems to be worth 0 for Pirate and Cursed...instead of the -1 it is for the rest...just saying...check Hammersmith and Devereaux...and Loyal seems to always be worth nothing...since you should be using a matching ship anyway.
its late, I'm babbling again...sorry.
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Post by woelf on Sept 17, 2009 7:59:13 GMT -5
note: Hostile seems to be worth 0 for Pirate and Cursed...instead of the -1 it is for the rest...just saying...check Hammersmith and Devereaux...and Loyal seems to always be worth nothing...since you should be using a matching ship anyway. FYI - both Hostile and Loyal are each essentially worth a half point each. Unless they're attached to an ability that uses fractions in its cost (which is very rare), one or the other by itself isn't going to be enough to lower the crew's total cost. Hostile is obviously the more meaningful one, since Loyal does almost nothing - all you need to satisfy it is an oarsman of the specified nation. I suggested several times to the designers to give it a broader effect (such as requiring a certain percentage (50%) of your total fleet to be the specified nation), but they preferred to leave it as-is.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 17, 2009 11:05:34 GMT -5
You should mention that to the new designers! Ling Tingfang: hmm.... I see your point now. Denying the British the ability to use her is pretty much meaningless. Hostile: Pirate is staying for flavor reasons. Her original "employers" didn't exactly pay her..... Adding loyal: Jade Rebellion would make sense for flavor reasons. Hadding the younger: Hmm... that works for me. Loyal is there to trump abilities like that of the Grand Barnacle. That's all it really does.
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Post by woelf on Sept 17, 2009 12:01:03 GMT -5
Loyal is there to trump abilities like that of the Grand Barnacle. That's all it really does. It barely even matters in that situation, because Loyal only needs one other thing of that nationality to appear anywhere in the entire fleet. Tossing even a single oarsman of the matching nationality on your home island is good enough.
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Post by admiralb on Sept 17, 2009 15:59:26 GMT -5
It seems to me Hostile is the only one worth anything...take Ralph David vs. Gus Schultz in RotF...both have Eternal, but Ralph David also has Hostile: Pirate and is 1pt cheaper...so, unless Eternal is one of those abilities that should have had a fractional point cost, it seems pretty obvious Hostile is the one that hs the major affect on point cost.
Whatever...its so minor I don't want to start a useless argument about it.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 17, 2009 18:38:34 GMT -5
Loyal is there to trump abilities like that of the Grand Barnacle. That's all it really does. It barely even matters in that situation, because Loyal only needs one other thing of that nationality to appear anywhere in the entire fleet. Tossing even a single oarsman of the matching nationality on your home island is good enough. Oh yeah, now I remember. I think this sort of thing is why that one guy came up with the "Fanatically Loyal" keyword. Hmmm.... New guy! Captain Kang Kong-Hsi - 6 -Jade rebellion Captain, Once per turn you may reroll any die roll you make for this ship.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 17, 2009 20:24:36 GMT -5
Katsura Chan already does that.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 18, 2009 19:44:34 GMT -5
It's "Katsura-chan", . Hmm... Perhaps give him musketeer, firepot or world-hater instead?
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 19, 2009 2:00:22 GMT -5
A captain+worldhater would make an interesting combination for the Jade Rebellion. I say go for it.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 19, 2009 10:40:57 GMT -5
which would bump him up to 7. works I guess.
New guy from a different faction: Mallory the bloody - 5 - Barbary Corsair Marine, One of this ships treasure coins is worth -1 gold when unloaded at your home island.
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Post by vladsimpaler on Sept 19, 2009 16:19:13 GMT -5
I'd make him 4 points in that case. Just me though.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 20, 2009 0:17:48 GMT -5
Ahh, that sounds good. Not sure how much such an offbeat bad ability is worth.
Marie Marvingt - 1 - Barbary Corsair Hostile: France, explorer, helmsman, this ship gets -1 to its cannon rolls while it carries treasure. Flavor text: Marie was once an explorer for the french crown, but after years of dissatisfaction with the way the crown treated it's colonies, she found a new home amidst the enemies of France.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 23, 2009 10:53:29 GMT -5
'nother one: Eternal Dragon - 7 - Jade Rebellion Whenever this ship eliminates the last segment of a sea creature, instead of eliminating the sea creature, it gains the eternal keyword, becomes docked at your homeisland, becomes a member of your fleet, and its faction becomes Jade Rebellion.
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