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Post by marhawkman on Sept 9, 2009 20:07:31 GMT -5
this is the same as the other two threads, except for crew.
Here's what I've done before:
Arngrim the Berserker - 4 - viking
unique crew
Hostile: England, instead of giving this ship an action you may instead give an action to any Kraken.
Flavor Text: Arngrim was only a minor warlord before he met Eyfura, when he laid eyes on her it filled him with a purpose like he'd never known before. Now his new father in law hopes that he will return and lend his strength to his newfound homeland.
Eyfura - 2 - Viking
Once during your turn, you may repair one mast of a Sea Creature within S of the ship or island that this crew is on.
Flavor text: Eyfura was once a Scandinavian Princess who loved to tend to animals. Now she has found her own ways of taking care of her husband's ever growing collection of terrible beasts of the sea.
Reivner, son of Arngrim - 5 - Viking
Unique crew
hostile: English, whenever this ship wins a boarding action it may capture as much non-crew cargo as it can carry from the other ship.
Flavor text: One of the 12 sons of Arngrim and Eyfura, Reivner is especially skilled at looting.
Hjörvard, son of Arngrim, X points, Viking
Unique crew
X is equal to the number of crew on this ship. If this ship in involved in a boarding action it gets +X to it's boarding roll.
Flavor text: One of the 12 sons of Arngrim and Eyfura, Hjörvard's specialty is overwhelming his opponents with brute force.
New crew:
Wang-Hsi the whirlpool explorer - 3 - Jade Rebellion
This ship does not have to roll for effect when it uses a whirlpool. This ship may continue moving after transiting a whirlpool.
Now in the previous thread it was discussed how to handle X cost crew. After due consideration, I think it'd be best to simply grandfather them in under the same provisions as 0 cost crew.
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Post by woelf on Sept 10, 2009 8:11:50 GMT -5
Now in the previous thread it was discussed how to handle X cost crew. After due consideration, I think it'd be best to simply grandfather them in under the same provisions as 0 cost crew. Could you explain what you mean by "the same provisions as 0 cost crew"? Currently, the two main provisions for them are: -Zero-cost crew can only be placed on ships of their own nationality -Point-reducing/modifying abilities do not apply until they are placed on a ship, which occurs during setup -- after building the fleet. Even if the first is applied to variable-cost crew, the second does nothing to prevent the primary issue with them. Specifically, if the cost is determined when placed on a ship with other crew, how do you determine the cost while building your fleet when crew haven't been placed yet? A crew like this could cost anywhere from 1 point (he counts against his own ability, right?) to as much as a dozen or more, depending on the setup. |
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 10, 2009 9:09:30 GMT -5
Okay, maybe the idea wasn't as good as I'd thought. >_<
I guess we'll have to add: "Must be placed face up, this crew cannot be transfered to another ship."
Urg.... On second thought even that wouldn't do much. you could simply put the crew on another ship and transfer them to his ship. I guess that Idea just won't work at all.
Maybe just make him cost 5 or so?
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Post by woelf on Sept 10, 2009 10:36:57 GMT -5
Maybe just make him cost 5 or so? That would work, although considering how little the existing 4-point* crew that give +1 to boarding get used, he probably wouldn't see a lot of action. *I have no idea why the cost of the +1 to boarding ability was raised from its original 2-point cost in Spanish Main. It was good but not essential at 2, decent but still useful at 3, but at 4 point is a little too high for what you get out of it. |
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 10, 2009 13:32:45 GMT -5
Would 4 be okay? Are there any rulings issues with the Jade guy?
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Post by woelf on Sept 11, 2009 8:11:18 GMT -5
5 is the absolute minimum, unless you also give him the Hostile/Loyal combo to bring it down to 4. The standard boarding ability costs 4 and gives only +1, while this one can do significantly more so it has to have a higher cost. Being able to jump all the way across the table without penalty, continue moving, and then take a shot (via captain) all with a single action is going to be too powerful - especially since you'd still be able to take a second action and do it twice. Just imagine him on a loaded San Cristobal (via Horacio Linares) - with just a handful of strategically-placed whirlpools (Calypso!) you could quite literally strike anywhere on the table with any move & shoot action - you'd be effectively giving that ship or any other reasonably fast gunship the equivalent of a sea dragon's unlimited movement. A much better way to handle this ability would be to end the move action like normal, but then give the ship a little extra movement at the end - something like this: "This ship may move S (or L) immediately after using a whirlpool" |
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Post by admiralb on Sept 11, 2009 15:44:57 GMT -5
just for clarification...maybe say "exiting a whirlpool" using just doesn't have the 'authority' that the ability needs...just to pick nits...also, it needs something to prevent ships from just jumping in a whirlpool and coming out of the same one and then getting the bonus...something like "After this ship rolls for a whirlpool, she may move S after exiting that whirlpool." maybe...has potential...I'd kind of like to see this develope further.
Oh, yeah...it would be pretty crazy powerful...I made a Spanish SAC captain once and used him on San Cristobal...even that was too powerful...something like free whirlpool jumping and then moving after it would be even more powerful...
on a sidenote: if I came out of a whirlpool could I board from S if I had the ability?
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 11, 2009 16:35:24 GMT -5
admiral: no. you can't normally get a free action off of exiting a whirlpool. I could go wth changing it to move L instead. Maybe make it conditional on the ship having not used up all it's movement sections?
Woelf: Hjörvard with hostile/loyal is good.
Wang-Hsi, hmm.... maybe phrase it kinda like "After exiting a whrlpool, you may move, as a free action, using whatever movement sections were unused when entering the first whirlpool." Would that work? Making the additional movement a free action prevents using a captain or explorer.
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Post by woelf on Sept 11, 2009 17:20:05 GMT -5
...also, it needs something to prevent ships from just jumping in a whirlpool and coming out of the same one and then getting the bonus...something like "After this ship rolls for a whirlpool, she may move S after exiting that whirlpool." maybe...has potential...I'd kind of like to see this develope further. The easy solution would be to remove the provision that his ship doesn't need to roll when using the whirlpool - then if someone tried to "game" the system by exiting the same WP they entered, they risk losing something important. Although, specifying a different WP works just as well. No, because that ability has to occur as part of a move action, but the move action ends when you pass from one WP to another. Wang-Hsi, hmm.... maybe phrase it kinda like "After exiting a whrlpool, you may move, as a free action, using whatever movement sections were unused when entering the first whirlpool." Would that work? Making the additional movement a free action prevents using a captain or explorer. That's still going to create issues with the various movement bonuses that are available (helmsmen, etc.) because they all technically have to occur after the ship's printed base move. It's an easy rule to ignore because in general the order of segments doesn't really matter, but it definitely would here. You'll save a ton of headaches by just giving it a fixed value of S or L. |
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 11, 2009 19:31:50 GMT -5
hmm... I guess that works. It'd be awkward and confusing to keep track of that anyways. which do you think would be best for the cost?
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 13, 2009 18:10:19 GMT -5
Alright revised version of old crew and a few new ones. Arngrim the Berserker - 4 - viking unique crew Hostile: England, instead of giving this ship an action you may instead give an action to any Kraken. Flavor Text: Arngrim was only a minor warlord before he met Eyfura, when he laid eyes on her it filled him with a purpose like he'd never known before. Now his new father in law hopes that he will return and lend his strength to his newfound homeland. Eyfura - 5 - Viking Once during your turn, you may repair one mast of a Sea Creature within S of the ship that this crew is on. Flavor text: Eyfura was once a Scandinavian Princess who loved to tend to animals. Now she has found her own ways of taking care of her husband's ever growing collection of terrible beasts of the sea. Reivner, son of Arngrim - 5 - Viking Unique crew hostile: English, whenever this ship wins a boarding action it may capture as much non-crew cargo as it can carry from the other ship. Flavor text: One of the 12 sons of Arngrim and Eyfura, Reivner is especially skilled at looting. Hjörvard, son of Arngrim, 4 points, Viking Hostile: France, Loyal: Viking. X is equal to the number of crew on this ship. If this ship in involved in a boarding action it gets +X to it's boarding roll. Flavor text: One of the 12 sons of Arngrim and Eyfura, Hjörvard's specialty is overwhelming his opponents with brute force. Wang-Hsi, the whirlpool explorer - 3 - Jade Rebellion This ship does not have to roll for effect when it uses a whirlpool. As a free action, this ship may move L after transiting a whirlpool. New guys: Hadding the Elder - 6 - Viking hostile: English, loyal: Viking, Marine Flavor text: Few know why Arngrim and Eyfura felt the need to name two of their sons Hadding, most are simply too scared of them to ask. The elder Hadding has acquired a liking for heavy firearms. It's said he can shoot the head off a Reindeer at almost 4 lås. Note: 4 lås is a little over 100 meters. Yay for archaic terms!  These aren't even very old. Lås wasn't replaced until they started using the metric system. Hadding the younger - 2 - Viking hostile: France, loyal: Viking, firepot specialist Flavor text: Few know why Arngrim and Eyfura felt the need to name two of their sons Hadding, most are simply too scared of them to ask. The younger Hadding has experimented in more novel uses for Black Powder than his older brother. His favorite (and probably safest) creation is a keg with a partition in the middle. In the top goes Black Powder, in the bottom goes lamp oil..... Ling Tingfang, trade expert - 3 - Jade Rebellion Hostile: English, Hostile: Pirate, explorer, after this ship loads cargo it may move S as a free action. Flavor text: Ling started her career keeping charts for silk traders. She quickly became an expert in the field herself. |
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Post by burnthills on Sept 16, 2009 7:42:15 GMT -5
Traitor
Mercenary Nationality. 6 points. This crew takes up no cargo space. This crew can be revealed and transferred to an enemy ship after winning a boarding action. This crew takes the nationality of the ship it's on. Roll a D6 before giving this ship an action. On a result of 1, elminiate 1 cargo from this ship. On a 3 or 4, your opponent moves this ship S this turn. On a result of 6, eliminate Traitor.
(I want to make his ability start only after the first time it is transferred to an enemy ship, not immediately as soon as the game starts)
the best part is, he can be transferred back and forth a few times during the game until it gets eliminated.
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Post by marhawkman on Sept 16, 2009 9:02:46 GMT -5
amusing idea.... although technically crew are cargo so rolling a 1 would allow you to execute traitor.
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Post by woelf on Sept 16, 2009 9:40:37 GMT -5
amusing idea.... although technically crew are cargo so rolling a 1 would allow you to execute traitor. ...not to mention any other effect that could eliminate crew, like a whirlpool, a sac-character, or even another boarding action. You'll need to add some extra ability text and/or clarifications to make it work as intended. Depending on the size of the ship, he will also run into issues with point limits - which could either prevent his ability from working at all or will immediately force his removal from the game because he's over the limit. |
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Post by woelf on Sept 16, 2009 9:58:42 GMT -5
New guys: Hadding the Elder - 6 - Viking hostile: English, loyal: Viking, Marine Flavor text: Few know why Arngrim and Eyfura felt the need to name two of their sons Hadding, most are simply too scared of them to ask. The elder Hadding has acquired a liking for heavy firearms. It's said he can shoot the head off a Reindeer at almost 4 lås. Hostile and Loyal plus Marine is five points - there were two crew with that combo in F&S. This crew is completely unnecessary because Vikings already have a generic firepot specialist at the same cost. Even if Hostile-Loyal to knocked him down to one point, that still only matches him up with the fire shot equipment that can be used on any ship regardless of nationality. The double-Hostile is neat, but making one of those English doesn't serve much purpose because they already have a crew exactly like this but without the restrictions - (SS) Sir Jeremy Rothschild, which I assume was your model for this crew. |
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These aren't even very old. Lås wasn't replaced until they started using the metric system.