|
Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 23, 2009 20:32:52 GMT -5
Avatar of Thor-X (Link: All Viking ships) All Viking ships gain the Helmsman keyword. Avatar of Thor's point cost is equal to the amount of Viking ships in your fleet.
Not sure how well this would be received by the few Viking players. This will make them all faster without being too expensive. Sure, in huge point matches with like every Viking ship his point cost is too high, but in a game in which you have 2-3 Viking ships, he's a bargain.
The name is a placeholder, but kind of cool.
Gifts of the gods is something that I wanted to explore with the Cursed, but it makes sense on Vikings too.
For example,
Gift of Thor (This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls) Gift of Loki (Force one ship to reroll a die at -1)
But most of all, Vikings need a 0LR+5 crew. That is without a doubt THE most important thing that they should get.
|
|
|
Post by cannonfury on Aug 23, 2009 21:37:17 GMT -5
whats an OLR crew, sorry i'm not used to using acronyms or whatever they're called
|
|
|
Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 23, 2009 22:01:28 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm just used to typing it that way.
It's a crew like Commodore Matthew Perry from SCS, he costs 0 points, has the keywords Limit and Ransom (hence the 0LR) and he gives you an additional 5 build points. Very useful.
|
|
|
Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 23, 2009 23:31:31 GMT -5
What do you guys think? I've done some testing with this and nothing strikes out as too balanced. There are some very fun combos to be had, especially with the Inquisitor. Almirante Juan Leonardo del Nero, 10 points (Link: All Spanish ships) Fanatically Loyal: Spain. Captain. You may eliminate one of this ship's crew to give her +1 to her cannon rolls against any non-Spanish ship or to give her the same action twice. Eliminate 1 crew to gain one of these abilities until end of turn. One ship/crew within S can't use its abilities these turn. You may ignore one hit to this ship. Tariq the Black, 3 points Captain. Crew of any nationality may use their abilities on this ship, but any non-Spanish crew on this ship gain the Ransom keyword. The Inquisitor, 6 points Eternal, Black Mark. If this ship ends her turn in a fog bank, on her next turn she can use her move action to move out of any other fog bank in play. Fernando Vasquez, 5 points Give this ship -1 to her cannon rolls: Double this ship's cannon ranges. -insert name here-, 22 points, Spanish Masts: 5 Cargo: 8 Speed: S+S Cannons: 4S 3S 3S 3S 4S Abilities: This ship has three diplomacy counters, you may place one gold piece from your home island onto any opponent's home island to place another diplomacy counter on this ship. Once per turn, you may remove a diplomacy counter from this ship, and target crew/ship within L can't use its abilities this turn. -Insert name here-, 11 points, Spanish Masts: 4 Cargo: 8 Speed: S+S Cannons: 5S 5S 5S 5S Abilities: Crew take up an additional cargo spot on this ship. Once per turn you may add any legal crew to this ship that you own from outside the game, but you must pay that many gold points from either this ship or your home island. -insert name here-, 14 points, Spanish Masts: 4 Cargo: 5 Speed: L Cannons: 3S 2L 2L 3S Abilities: Whenever this ship hits an enemy ship, that ship's controller must roll 1d6 for each crew on that ship. For each 1 rolled, eliminate a crew of that opponent's choice. -insert name here- 12 points, Spanish Masts: 3 Cargo: 5 Speed: S+L Cannons: 3S 3L 3S Abilities: Whenever a crew on this ship is revealed, place a gold coin equaling 1 point onto this ship, it takes up no cargo. You may only reveal one crew per turn on this ship. -insert name here-, 6 points, Spanish Masts: 1 Cargo: 2 Speed: S+L Cannon: 3S Abilities: Give this ship a move action, but don't move her. Instead, you may consider the nearest wild island nearest to this ship as explored.
|
|
|
Post by marhawkman on Aug 24, 2009 13:09:38 GMT -5
Avatar of Thor: WANT! I can't say I dislike any of the other ideas either.
|
|
|
Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 24, 2009 13:29:31 GMT -5
Avatar of Thor: WANT! I can't say I dislike any of the other ideas either. Thank you for the compliments. Now that I'm thinking about it, should this set have a crew or 2 for the one-off factions? Each one-off faction would get 1 card with 2 crew on them. So there would be the Corsairs, the Jade Rebellion, and the Vikings.
|
|
|
Post by admiralb on Aug 24, 2009 13:56:05 GMT -5
hmm...names...Avatar of Thor sounds more "shippy" but the idea is pretty cool...maybe instead of gaing the helmsman keyword, just say "All friendly Viking ships get +S to their base move." or would it be too powerful to have a helmsman stack with it? hmm...although by giving them all helmsman its a nice way of facing down the fact that one-shot nations need more generic crew...maybe a Jade crew that gives Oarsman or Musketeer...
Jade Rebellion ~ Xpts ~ The Faceless ~ Link - All Jade Rebellion Ships
All other friendly Jade Rebellion ships gain the Musketeer keyword. X equals the total number of friendly Jade Rebellion ships in play.
Some say he's related to Dragon Eyes...but anyone that knows for sure has been quickly "dealt with."
I made it "other friendly ships" similar to those ships that give cannon bonuses...plus by not giving it to his own ship it raises his cost by 1pt while not helping the ship he's on...since Musketeer is more than helmsman...
Avatar of Thor could be a relative of Ethan the Farseeker...maybe "Son of Farseeker."
Personally, I think Fernando Vazquez should have a different first name...since we already have a Fernando Sanchez...maybe Frederico? or Jorge?
Inquisitor is interesting...although the points should be 7...fog-hopper is 5pts usually...I'd love to play this guy...fog-hopping with Acorazado! evil!
del Nero is interesting, but the point cost will definately put people off using him...he'd probably be better at 7pts...since the "Fanatically Loyal" pretty much cancels out the Captain in point cost...
Tariq is interesting, what happens if those crew are captured, do they still have Ransom even though they aren't on Tariq's ship anymore? maybe just give Tariq himself the Ransom. easier to keep track of that way.
the smallest ship would be kind of interesting called out as something like "San Agustin" or soemthing...relate it back to Agustin Covas...the ability could be worded better, but I like it...first turn lose this ship's action to mark the nearest wild island explored and then jump it with Hai Peng, San Cristobal, Banshee's Cry or some other fast ship.
the 12pt one, maybe just way "Once per turn, when you reveal one of this ship's crew, you may take a gold coin from outside the game with a printed value of 1 and place it on this ship." basically the same idea, but does not limit you to only revealing one crew a turn, in case you need to reveal a captain and an oarsman...or explorer and helmsman or whatever...I'd also increase the point cost of the ability to 3-5pts. as it is now, its only 1-2. name suggestions...some kind of "Galleon de..." like Galleon de Gibraltar in MI...maybe Galleon de Dorado..."Ship of Gold" loosely translated...
the 14 pointer is nice...the points are just about spot on. the rolling is cool.
the 11pt crew factory ship is unusual...maybe just say something like "This ship gets -1 cargo for each crew on board." instead of taking up additional cargo space...more like Rotting Hull in wording then. has potential to be abused if you dump off crew...the cost of 11 also opens it up for draggin in expensive crew from outside the game if you have enough gold...
the 22pt ship I've commented on the ability before...names...maybe look into Diaz...maybe even call it something like Galleon de Diaz...or Corazon Diaz...or something odd, but seemingly recognizable...
Vikings and Limit crew...yeah, um the +5 crew could be someone related to Sigurd Andersen...although aren't Viking names dereived from their relatives...like Leif Ericson...son of Eric the Red...how would that work with Andersen? Ander? is that even a name? whatever...and the reroll Limit/Ransom should be a woman...Vikings need more of them...maybe have some reference to her being as beautiful as Thor's wife, Freya.
and the Runestones from previously...that was just one idea, there could be any number of them, just give them different names...the one I suggested would probably be something like Runestone of Magic or something.
|
|
|
Post by marhawkman on Aug 24, 2009 19:32:12 GMT -5
Okay longer post this time. Tariq the Black, I really like the downside here. It's perfect! The Inquisitor, Ow..... Maybe a bit cheap. Not quite sure. Eternal apparently isn't that much. Fernando Vasquez, 5 points Give this ship -1 to her cannon rolls: Double this ship's cannon ranges. ^Is it during this turn only? -insert name here-, 22 points, Spanish Abilities: This ship has three diplomacy counters, you may place one gold piece from your home island onto any opponent's home island to place another diplomacy counter on this ship. Once per turn, you may remove a diplomacy counter from this ship, and target crew/ship within L can't use its abilities this turn. ^I don't really like the counter idea, but it's not something horribly awkward. -Insert name here-, 11 points, Spanish Abilities: Crew take up an additional cargo spot on this ship. Once per turn you may add any legal crew to this ship that you own from outside the game, but you must pay that many gold points from either this ship or your home island. ^ Interesting idea. Probably a combo enabler or some such. -insert name here-, 14 points, Spanish Abilities: Whenever this ship hits an enemy ship, that ship's controller must roll 1d6 for each crew on that ship. For each 1 rolled, eliminate a crew of that opponent's choice. ^Absolutely vicious, in a good way. Not sure if it costs enough, but most of the time it won't really do much. though there's always that 1-100 chance it'll hurt really bad. -insert name here- 12 points, Spanish Abilities: Whenever a crew on this ship is revealed, place a gold coin equaling 1 point onto this ship, it takes up no cargo. You may only reveal one crew per turn on this ship. ^Interesting idea, would it require there to be free cargo space? And of course the question about the coin needing to come from outside the game. -insert name here-, 6 points, Spanish Abilities: Give this ship a move action, but don't move her. Instead, you may consider the wild island nearest to this ship as explored. ^nice. Maybe call it el Falcone? Of course the set should have stuff for all the 1-of factions.... that's the thing I like the LEASt about the game, a close second is the ramming rules. I'm actually wondering if it'd be possible to split the set evenly between all of them? Avatar of Thor: I like the "son of Farseeker" name idea. the faceless: sweet! Tariq: it sounds like it should stay until they return to on of their owner's ships. +5 crew: Anders Bjornsson? reroll: maybe call her Frigg Sigurdsdottir? Runestones: Runestone of Darkness "This treasure cannot be revealed unless the ship is docked at an island. When revealed, place this treasure face up on this island. Once per turn, instead of giving one of your ships docked at this island an action, you may give an action to an enemy ship." Runestone of Terror "While revealed, the ship or island that this treasure is located on has the Fear keyword." time for new stuff: Fang of Fenris - 12? - Viking Galley Masts: 2s-3l-2s (3) Cargo: 3 Speed: s-s Ability: Whenever this ship rolls a 6 in a shoot action, eliminate an extra mast or crew on the target ship. Hafgufa - 20? - viking Kraken Masts: 4s-2s-3s-2s-2s-3s-2s-4s Cargo: 3 Speed: l-l Whenever this seamonster wins a boarding action, it may take one crew or treasure from the ship. Crew captured in this way are treated as Unique Treasures until unloaded. Lyngbakr - 16 - viking Kraken Masts: 4s-3s-3s-2s-2s-3s-3s-4s Cargo:0 Speed: s-s This sea monster may move and shoot using the same action. Arngrim the Berserker - 8 - viking unique crew Hostile: England, instead of giving this ship an action you may instead give an action to any Kraken. Eyfura - 2 - viking unique crew Once during your turn, you may repair one mast of a Kraken within S of this crew. Reivner, son of Arngrim - 5 - Viking Unique crew hostile: English, whenever this ship wins a boarding action it may capture as much crew as it can carry from the other ship. Okay I'm REALLLY not sure on the proper costs here and the costs should be treated as wild guesses.
|
|
|
Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 25, 2009 11:27:03 GMT -5
Runestones: Runestone of Darkness "This treasure cannot be revealed unless the ship is docked at an island. When revealed, place this treasure face up on this island. Once per turn, instead of giving one of your ships docked at this island an action, you may give an action to an enemy ship." Runestone of Terror "While revealed, the ship or island that this treasure is located on has the Fear keyword." time for new stuff: Fang of Fenris - 12? - Viking Galley Masts: 2s-3l-2s (3) Cargo: 3 Speed: S+S Ability: Whenever this ship rolls a 6 in a shoot action, eliminate an extra mast or crew on the target ship. This might actually be a bit on the expensive side, I'd lower the point cost to around 10. Perhaps 11. Pretty close though. Interesting how it is a galley. That's a very fast Kraken. I think that it should be able to take a treasure or kill a crew. Would make some sense. Interesting. I don't use Krakens at all to be totally honest so I'm not sure how well costed this thing is. But if it can submerge, one ship will eventually get 8 hits on it. Since he's quite limited, he should probably be around 4 or 5 points, at the most. I'd like to caution you against biasing the crew to any sort of not so commonly used ship or seamonster. Because when you use these crew in an actual game, you start building around it, and usually those things are overpriced. If you replaced Kraken with "Longship", like the crew above, I guarantee you that you'd see more players wanting to use the Vikings with crew like that. Just a though, however. For example, nobody uses crew like Jules Arnaud, which give the sea monster +L base move if the sea monster is within L. Well, that I know at least. Now this is probably too powerful. Captain Nemo costed I think 9 points and he could capture only one crew. Then again the Vikings are terrible at boarding, which makes no sense. It'd be cool, I think, to see a crew that gives +1 boarding for each crew on their respective ship. That's just me, though. Personally, if this set ever gets made, I'm sure that the crew can get in, but I'm not so sure about Kraken.
|
|
|
Post by woelf on Aug 25, 2009 12:46:50 GMT -5
But most of all, Vikings need a 0LR+5 crew. That is without a doubt THE most important thing that they should get. Five extra points isn't going to do them much good when they have so few worthwhile crew to pull into the fleet. A cheap SAT or extra action crew would be far more valuable to the Vikings. If you still wanted to get them a 0LR equivalent, make it +10 instead but give it the restriction that you can have *only* Viking ships and crew in the fleet (Hostile: Non-Viking). Almirante Juan Leonardo del Nero, 10 points (Link: All Spanish ships) Fanatically Loyal: Spain. Captain. You may eliminate one of this ship's crew to give her +1 to her cannon rolls against any non-Spanish ship or to give her the same action twice. Eliminate 1 crew to gain one of these abilities until end of turn. One ship/crew within S can't use its abilities these turn. You may ignore one hit to this ship. This works, but the wording seems a bit too cumbersome and redundant. It would probably better to simplify it like this: You may eliminate one of this ship's crew to give her any one of the following abilities until the end of the turn: -This ship gets +1 to her cannon rolls against Non-Spanish ships. -This ship may be given the same action twice. -One ship or crew within S cannot use its abilities this turn. -You may ignore one hit this ship takes.I do like this crew, but it really doesn't "feel" Spanish. It would be perfect as a pure Cursed crew though. Also, it doesn't fit the Inquisitor either. His previous incarnation had the BM keyword because he was so cruel and unforgiving (which fit with the "theme" of the Cursed), not because he was undead or into anything supernatural. In fact, I'd say he is more likely to be the complete opposite and would be violently opposed to anything he deems "unholy". I think this ability would bring the game to a grinding halt, because you'd have to stop and make a bunch of extra die rolls every single time this one hit another. A much simpler method, with a similar end effect, would be something like this: Each time this ship hits an enemy ship and the die roll is a (6), also eliminate one crew from the enemy ship. I'm not really a fan of spontaneous gold generation, especially when it could be coupled with a crew that adds to the value. Something vaguely similar that might work better is this: One of this ship's treasures is worth +X gold when unloaded at your home island; 'X' is equal to the number of revealed crew on this ship.This would force you to make a trade-off - you can increase the value of a single treasure by adding more crew, but that will cut down on the total amount of treasure you can actually carry. Did you have a specific purpose in mind for this one? Other than maybe getting a slight head start on building a fort (which still requires gold on your HI and a ship docked at the island, so it's not much of a head start at all), I'm not seeing much point to using this ability. You're giving up a whole action to do what could be accomplished much more easily with Alejandro Malaspina or even a plain old simple Explorer.
|
|
|
Post by marhawkman on Aug 25, 2009 13:46:00 GMT -5
This might actually be a bit on the expensive side, I'd lower the point cost to around 10. Perhaps 11. Pretty close though. Interesting how it is a galley. I was thinking about other ship types that the Norse could use and Galley was a perfect fit for the types of ships they actually used. 10? okayI suppose I could change it to kill. the speed is a large part of why I gave it a cost of 20.Well, I was kinda cautious here because a built-in captain ability on an 8 tentacled seamonster can trash most ship in the game. Especially with the special rule for Krakens engulfing ships. They "surround" the ship with their tentacles and the ship can't leave unless either the Kraken does or the kraken dies.Maybe 6 and add in the captain ability that I forgot to give him?Well, this is intended to work like Marine and function indepentently of ships. So if she's on a ship she can heal any Kraken within s, but it also works if she's on an island. Either way limiting it to a specific type of seacreature is probably a bad idea.did Nemo have another ability? Either way you're probably right about the cost.Hmm... nice idea for one of Reivner's brothers. Awww, but the game lacks non-pirate Kraken. That's part of why.
|
|
|
Post by admiralb on Aug 25, 2009 14:25:08 GMT -5
Hafgufa could actually be more expensive depending on the cost of "Kraken"...same for Lyngbakr...although if you dropped the speed of Hafgufa to S+S or just L, I'd say 20 was fine...Lynbakr would be about right at 18-19... giving an action to a Kraken is 6 or less...if he has Hostile drop it another point...6pts because crew like "Screaming" Mimi, Mycron, fleet action rollers are all 6 and do similar things...also, check Davy Jones from Caribbean for the Kraken related ability...I actually did a Viking beastmaster once that had the same ability...and 2 Krakens...they might have been the same two you made here I like the repair a Kraken thing...we need one for sea monsters! hmm...a new Davy Jones, El Fantasma, Hag of Tortuga, etc. although I do agree that it seems a bit limited...maybe change it to "Once per turn, you may give any friendly ship within S of this ship a free repair action." This way it can be used on Krakens, but also on other more useful ships like Longships, treasure runners...actually, I think I made a few French ships in the other thread with that exact ability...haha...if you did that then raise the cost to at least 4pts. oh, and just to be annoying...the Inquisitor having Cursed seeming things is kind of cool actually, there's a better story there...how did he come about his unholy powers? you can't tell me his decent into the weird and unholy wouldn't be a better story than...oh, say the boring story about hunting down the herectics that's been done so many times already...but you know, just my opinion...oh, and does Spain have ANY other crew that are really "supernatural" in any way? Inquisitor fits that bill better than anyone else. capturing as many crew as you can carry would probably be at least 10pts...minimum...more i]like 14 though...especially when I can use Warlord Cavendish on Baochuan to get Anamaria who can "use crew of any nationality" to get this guy...I can run around capturing 10+ crew depending on links and extra cargo I've generated. sidenote: Nemo also let you use the captured crew as if they were your own...the others just made them into gold...Nemo is 8, but also have Ex-pat which is 1pt...so hhis capture ability is 7...same as Barbarossa/Dragon Eyes/Blackbeard/Barstow.
|
|
|
Post by woelf on Aug 25, 2009 14:25:16 GMT -5
Lyngbakr - 16 - viking Kraken Masts: 4s-3s-3s-2s-2s-3s-3s-4s Cargo:0 Speed: s-s This sea monster may move and shoot using the same action. The Kraken and Captain keywords are not compatible at all. The Kraken keyword specifically says that it cannot surround a ship and attack on the same turn, plus the ability to surround does not occur as part of a move action. It also says that a kraken can only attack ships that it has surrounded, so that prevents it from using the Captain ability against a non-surrounded ship. Also, Krakens don't submerge - they simply cannot be shot at except by surrounded ship. Giving a named crew the Captain keyword does not automatically make it better, especially if the crew's other ability doesn't work directly with it. Take a look at Capitaine Baudouin Deleflote from SS if you need a good example of how adding the captain ability *doesn't* always improve a crew. In most cases it's better to leave that keyword off and allow the crew's price to go down. If you really need the ship to be able to move&shoot, there are usually plenty of other captains available. Like Vlad said, this one is severely undercosted. Nemo's capture ability costs 8 points and only allows you to capture (and use) one crew, while Barbarossa's ability costs around 7 and captures one crew which gets turned into gold when unloaded. An ability that allows you to capture ALL crew on another ship would have to cost quite a bit more - at least 12 or 13. Considering how often the exisitng krakens get used, do we really need more?
|
|
|
Post by vladsimpaler on Aug 25, 2009 14:36:58 GMT -5
But most of all, Vikings need a 0LR+5 crew. That is without a doubt THE most important thing that they should get. Five extra points isn't going to do them much good when they have so few worthwhile crew to pull into the fleet. A cheap SAT or extra action crew would be far more valuable to the Vikings. If you still wanted to get them a 0LR equivalent, make it +10 instead but give it the restriction that you can have *only* Viking ships and crew in the fleet (Hostile: Non-Viking). Quite true. So "Limit, Ransom, Fanatically Loyal: Vikings. Place this crew faceup during setup, it can't leave this ship unless captured or eliminated. You may add 10 points to your build total, but your fleet may only consist of Viking ships or crew." This actually works a bit different, because of the wording. This means that you have a 50 point fleet, not a 40 point fleet +10 points. However this creates another problem. It's fine to give the Vikings stuff like this, but once we start giving them good stuff, this crew will become broken. I like the change, added a little bit of personal touch. Do you think that 10 points is still fine, or like admiralb do you think that it should be lowered? Very true. Perhaps we should drop the Inquisitor crew and add a historical Spanish crew. I think that I'd rather just drop the ability.
|
|
|
Post by woelf on Aug 25, 2009 15:35:23 GMT -5
So "Limit, Ransom, Fanatically Loyal: Vikings. Place this crew faceup during setup, it can't leave this ship unless captured or eliminated. You may add 10 points to your build total, but your fleet may only consist of Viking ships or crew." This actually works a bit different, because of the wording. This means that you have a 50 point fleet, not a 40 point fleet +10 points. No matter how they're worded, crew abilities technically don't apply until they're placed - that means the timing between fleet building and crew placement would still make it work as a 40+10 even though it does refer specifically to the build total. I assume you're getting at the fact that they don't have any ships under 10 points. Short of increasing the bonus even more or completely rewording the ability to specifically allow you to add any "leftover" points from the build to the bonus, the Vikings will probably have to remain restricted to getting only "free" crew out of the deal. Also, what was Fanatically Loyal:X again? If it's the equivalent of Hostile: Non-X, the last part saying "...but your fleet may only consist of Viking ships or crew" would be redundant. An ability like that would basically force a design decision to be made - do you give them a few new things now and then never (or almost never) touch them again, or do you continue expanding them from time to time? This ability would definitely work with the former option, but would create a slipperly slope (or at the very least designer headaches) with the latter. 10 points should be just fine, especially if you keep the Captain keyword. Individually none of those abilities are worth 7 points, but the sheer versatility and the fact that you can use more than one of the abilities at once should definitely come as a premium. Also, make sure to tweak the wording so that it clearly says you only get one of those abilities per crew, otherwise some people might argue they get them all. If he would give all of those abilities at once, the price would have to go up to at least 15.
|
|